D&D (2024) Make SPELLS Balanced

[tetrasodium]

While I could see the case for fireball being toned back down its not even close to the biggest spell abuse in the game. Something like hypnotic pattern is far more disruptive.

On the flip side, there are a number of garbage spells that could certainly use love, Mordenkainen's Sword being near the top...there's actually a lot of 6th+ level spells that just aren't worth the pay grade.

Lots of spells were dramatically buffed in 5e's streamlining & simplification with nonsensical results for the spell level. hypnotic pattern is a good example when you compare the 5e version to older versions of that spell. Even going back to check the 2e version has the 5e one more powerful than either edition back when magic was super powered

Spoiler: 2e

Hypnotic Pattern
(Illusion/Phantasm)

Range: 30 yds. Components: S, M
Duration: Special Casting Time: 2
Area of Effect: 30-ft. cube Saving Throw: Neg.

When this spell is cast, the wizard creates a weaving, twisting pat-
tern of subtle colors in the air. This pattern causes any creature look-
ing at it to become fascinated and stand gazing at it as long as the
spellcaster maintains the display, plus two rounds thereafter. The
spell can captivate a maximum of 24 levels, or Hit Dice, of creatures
(for example, 24 creatures with 1 Hit Die each, 12 with 2 Hit Dice,
etc.). All creatures affected must be within the area of effect, and
each is entitled to a saving throw vs. spell. A damage-inflicting attack
on an affected creature frees it from the spell immediately.
The wizard need not utter a sound, but he must gesture appropri-
ately while holding a glowing stick of incense or a crystal rod filled
with phosphorescent material.

Spoiler: 3.5

Hypnotic Pattern​

Illusion (Pattern) [Mind-Affecting]​

Level:	Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Components:	V (Brd only), S, M; see text
Casting Time:	1 standard action
Range:	Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect:	Colorful lights in a 10-ft.-radius spread
Duration:	Concentration + 2 rounds
Saving Throw:	Will negates
Spell Resistance:	Yes

A twisting pattern of subtle, shifting colors weaves through the air, fascinating creatures within it. Roll 2d4 and add your caster level (maximum 10) to determine the total number of Hit Dice of creatures affected. Creatures with the fewest HD are affected first; and, among creatures with equal HD, those who are closest to the spell’s point of origin are affected first. Hit Dice that are not sufficient to affect a creature are wasted. Affected creatures become fascinated by the pattern of colors. Sightless creatures are not affected.

A wizard or sorcerer need not utter a sound to cast this spell, but a bard must sing, play music, or recite a rhyme as a verbal component.

Material Component​

Spoiler: 5e

LEVEL
3rd
CASTING TIME
1 Action
RANGE/AREA
120 ft (30 ft )
COMPONENTS
S, M *
DURATION
Concentration 1 Minute
SCHOOL
Illusion
ATTACK/SAVE
WIS Save
DAMAGE/EFFECT
Charmed

You create a twisting pattern of colors that weaves through the air inside a 30-foot cube within range. The pattern appears for a moment and vanishes. Each creature in the area who sees the pattern must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the creature becomes charmed for the duration. While charmed by this spell, the creature is incapacitated and has a speed of 0.
The spell ends for an affected creature if it takes any damage or if someone else uses an action to shake the creature out of its stupor.

Bizarrely the 5e version dramatically bumps the AoE size over 3.5 & bumps both aoe as well as range over 2e yet removes the hit dice limit from both all while removing the hurdle of being SR:yes from 3.5.

 

[Gadget]

I definitely agree that spells need to be rebalanced. However, like some others, I disagree that Fireball is anywhere near the top of the list. I'm not sure that the 'suggested guidelines" for spells in the DMG are gospel in any case. Sure fix Mordenkainen's Sword, along with possibly Witch Bolt, Acid Splash, and some others. But what about things like Find Traps, True Strike, Friends, Crown of Madness, and many others that could use a boost?

And Hypnotic Pattern, Tiny Hut, Forbiddance, Forcecage, Simulacrum and a few others could use some toning down.

Edit: Grammer & punctuation.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I definitely agree that spells need to be rebalanced. However, like some others, I disagree that Fireball is anywhere near the top of the list. I'm not sure that the 'suggested guidelines" for spells in the DMG are gospel in any case. Sure Mordenkainen's Sword, along with possibly Witch Bolt, Acid Splash, and some others. But what about things like Find Traps, True Strike, Friends, Crown of Madness, and many others could use a boost.

And Hypnotic Pattern, Tiny Hut, Forbiddance, Forcecage, Simulacrum and a few others could use some toning down.

I want less powerful mages... and even I want Bladeward, Friends and True strike to be made more useful.

I will raise stone skin... it's a sucky spell either make it resist all bludge pierce slash or make it lower level and EITHER way remove the concentration on it

 

[Kobold Stew]

The proposed changes they made to Barkskin and Guidance make me hopeful that they really are trying to listen to concerns raised by the fanbase, and produce something that's workable going forward. Both are solid fixes.

(Barkskin was always terrible, and this is now clear and useful. I myself had no problems with Guidance, but I understand that in some groups it can become annoying. this fixes that.)

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The proposed changes they made to Barkskin and Guidance make me hopeful that they really are trying to listen to concerns raised by the fanbase, and produce something that's workable going forward. Both are solid fixes.

I like that they tried, but I am not happy with barkskin being a renamed heroism and I don't know how I feel about guidence

 

[UngeheuerLich]

hmm, might work.

1st level fireball, 3d6, 10ft radius
2nd lvl, 5d6, 15ft radius
3rd lvl, 7d6, 20ft radius
4th level, 9d6, 25ft radius
...
9th level, 19d6, 50ft radius

Fireball is now 1st level spell. This is now canon.

No, it is a 3rd level spell you can downcast. It is a big difference.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

No, it is a 3rd level spell you can downcast. It is a big difference.

that means you have to be a 5th level wizard to be able to prep it in a 3rd level prep zone/slot/level that you can use that 1st or 2nd level slot for...

 

[UngeheuerLich]

that means you have to be a 5th level wizard to be able to prep it in a 3rd level prep zone/slot/level that you can use that 1st or 2nd level slot for...

Exactly. Or be a sorcerer level 5. Allows the sorcerer to fully upgrade burning hands to fireball because they don´t have to fear not having a fire spell in a low level slot.

In the light of the multiclass rules (which I really like), this would be even more of an incentive to not stra away too far from your main class, as you can get some bigger guns for your otherwise quite useless low level slots. This would allow toning down fireball a bit, as you don´t need the load the burden completely on the highest level slot.

 

[Laurefindel]

I find that I don’t have much problems with spell damage as they are; my issue is more with the concentration mechanics. Spells like flame blade and mordenkanen sword are mostly handicapped by the fact that losing concentration makes them too risky for the situations they are made for, that is, encounters where you need to endure with as little spell slots as possible. But in a paradigm where casters cast a new spell every round in every combat, these spells underperform regardless of concentration.

But still, I like the multiple niches that these spells fall in, I just don’t like the fact that the situations for these niches to exist almost never occur at all.

 

[Sir Brennen]

One factor I didn’t see taken into consideration for damage spells, is whether a To Hit roll is required. To me that’s always been the justification for spells like Chromatic Orb and Scorching Ray to have higher than average damage.

For true average damages, you’d need to take into account those instances where the spell fails to hit its target, doing zero damage. Same with spells that deal half damage on a save.

And of course, what if there’s additional effects of the spell beyond damage? Like ice storm? Is a round of difficult terrain worth a damage adjustment of some kind?