Star Wars: Andor

[RuinousPowers]

One in three episodes qualifies as "great".

It's a shame we have to sit through two out of three that are boring in order to get there.

I would be more generous and say half instead of a third. But the first 3 episodes were some of the worst of the series.

 

[pukunui]

Ever met a teenager? If parents didn't keep on loving them despite how awful they are none of us would be here.

I know. I was being somewhat facetious. I have two teenage (and one pre-teen) daughters of my own.

Spoiler

Listen to it again as if Luthen is recalling his past and ticking off the things that are lost to him. The first thing he lists is somewhat surprising:

"Calm"

The thing about "Calm" in the Star Was universe is that it is a very loaded term full of resonance. We learn about "Calm" and it's importance way back in Empire. Luke asks Yoda how he can know if he is on the Light side, and Yoda tells him: "You will know. You will know when you are calm, at peace, passive." For a force user on the light side, to say you have sacrificed your calm is a devastating thing to say. And because it is both innocuous sounding and devastating in its depths, that's how I know Luthen is a force user. Because only a good writer would start the speech with "Calm" knowing how loaded that term.

But Luthen continues recounting his sacrifices:

"Kindness", "Kinship", "Love"

Now Luthen is telling us his history. Because these are things that the Jedi order demands you sacrifice. The Jedi order as it exists in this era avoids attachment to the point of avoiding even higher emotions. At some point in the past, Luthen had kindness, kinship, and love - and then those things were lost to him as he journeyed on his path. But why?

Luthen tells us:

"I have given up all chance at inner peace" Once again, Luthen returns to the mystical and the religious of experience. He gave up all chance of inner peace on his path.

And then he says:

"I share my dreams with ghosts" Luthen shares his dreams with the dead. The people who understood Luthen and wanted what he wanted are dead. And again, "ghosts" is a loaded term in the Star Wars universe. It brings to mind Force Ghosts. Luthen's dead that he shares his dreams with are Jedi.

"I wake up every day to an equation I wrote 15 years ago to which there is only one conclusion"

Now Luthen gives hints to his timeline. When did this change start to happen? When did he give up all chance of "inner peace"? Fifteen years ago.

And again he returns to the mystical and religious to describe this transformation.

"I'm damned for what I do".

And he tells us why he is damned.

"My anger. My ego. My unwillingness to yield. My eagerness to fight has set me on a path from which there is no escape"

All these things are Jedi sins. It's the Jedi who avoid anger and ego. It's the Jedi whose life is suppose to be a continual act of yielding to the force. It's the Jedi who are supposed to be always passive, only using the force for defense and never to attack. Only a Jedi sees damnation in this way within the Star Wars universe. Only a Jedi talks like this.

And again, notice the use of loaded Star Wars language. He's on a "path" for which there is no escape.

"Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will."

Think about this in the excellent terms of the WEG Star Wars D6 RPG. If Luthen is not a force sensitive, then what he's doing can be justified by the ends. He's fighting the good fight. He's acting heroically. But force sensitives are held to a higher standard. They have to adhere to Davies idealism. It matter to them not just whether they are fighting the right fight, but how they fight the fight. Cassian or another non-force sensitive can shoot a contact in the back for higher purpose, committing murder and betrayal of a friend whom they know is doomed in order to protect the galaxy from an existential threat, but a force sensitive PC that does that earns a dark side point because they do know the full implications of their actions. Luthen's murky grey path is uniquely torturous to him, because as a force sensitive he can't escape the reality of what he's doing and it's damaging him.

Luthen goes on to say, "I yearned to be a savior to fight against injustice, but by the time I looked down there is no longer any ground beneath my feet. What is my sacrifice? I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burned my decency for someone else's future. I burned my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see. The [eager?] that started this fight will never have a mirror or an audience or the light of gratitude. So what do I sacrifice? EVERYTHING!"

In the Star Wars universe, only the Jedi talk like that. I can tell him for a Jedi the same way I can tell from the language of writer what works they grew up with and chewed over and read and reread. You don't write that speech as a writer in the Star Wars universe unless you've really chewed over what it means to be a Jedi, and since this writer is good I know he doesn't write that speech by accident. He knows exactly what he is saying.

Somehow you have again attributed a quote from me to someone else. But yes, I did go back and listen again and also looked at what other people were saying around the internet, and I agree that he could very well be a Jedi who calls on the dark side of the Force to accomplish his goals. I do not agree with the theory that he is a Sith with Kleya as his apprentice, though. That seems a bit too far-fetched and does not fit with the speech he just gave his ISB mole. (If Luthen was a Jedi, Kleya could have been his padawan.)

If Luthen is a Jedi, that also explains why the Khyber crystal he loaned Cassian meant so much to him.

I wonder if he has cut himself off from the Force like Luke did many years later.

 

[Celebrim]

Somehow you have again attributed a quote from me to someone else.

Which is weird and I'm not sure how it is happening.

 

[Celebrim]

But yes, I did go back and listen again and also looked at what other people were saying around the internet, and I agree that he could very well be a Jedi who calls on the dark side of the Force to accomplish his goals. I do not agree with the theory that he is a Sith with Kleya as his apprentice, though. That seems a bit too far-fetched and does not fit with the speech he just gave his ISB mole. (If Luthen was a Jedi, Kleya could have been his padawan.)

I personally don't think Luthen is a Sith or that he is wielding Dark Force powers. Rather, when he talks about "using the tools of the enemy" he means something more subtle such as the fact that his primary mode of operation is spreading fear and deciet. I don't think he's Sith or ex-Sith because he doesn't talk like a Sith, think like a Sith, or act like a Sith. A Sith wouldn't say that he's given up the things he's given up, or fill the need to give them up. Also, while I disagreed with @Davies to a large extent, I don't disagree fully. If Luthen is going as far into the Dark Side as that, he'd lose sight of the goals. Unlike Anakin, Luthen is failed, but he's not fallen.

 

[Zaukrie]

Two great, powerful, speeches. One looking at us, asking us to help others. One where the character looked at the camera, but really inside themselves. While it sounded like a speech about himself, it, too, asked us to do something. Truly amazing this is a Disney / Star Wars show.

 

[Rabulias]

Right now my only regret is Diego Luna refused to do all 5 of the originally planned seasons forcing the pacing to be this fast.

I heard it was the producers realizing they would spend 8 to 10 years producing five seasons that drove the decision to move to two seasons.

You make a compelling case for Luthen being an ex-Jedi. I had not considered it before but I may go back and watch his scenes again with that possibility in mind. It may also explain his relationship with Kleya and her loyalty to him if she was his padawan.

 

[Rabulias]

Somehow you have again attributed a quote from me to someone else.

I see the quoting in Celebrim's message to be accurate, but maybe I am missing the quote you are talking about.

If I click your name in the quote section, it takes me to your message earlier in the thread that includes the quote.

 

[Ryujin]

For the people who think that Andor is boring, I'm guessing that a movie like GATTACA puts you right to sleep.

 

[pukunui]

I see the quoting in Celebrim's message to be accurate, but maybe I am missing the quote you are talking about.

If I click your name in the quote section, it takes me to your message earlier in the thread that includes the quote.

I suspect Celebrim went back and fixed the misquotes. Previously it indicated he was quoting trappedslider and wickedcool respectively.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

For the people who think that Andor is boring, I'm guessing that a movie like GATTACA puts you right to sleep.

I couldn't even get halfway through that. I also can't stand slow-burning political dramas in general.