D&D 5E The Gloves Are Off?

[Bill Zebub]

If the rules don't make sense to you, the best option is IMO not to just accept it, but to change it.

I thought the best option is to make dozens of posts trying to convince other people why it shouldn't make sense to them, either.

 

[aco175]

It feels like we are all arguing for parts of this.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I wasn't talking about the gloves at all, but rather making a blanket statement about how 5e as a whole is designed to work.

I know. I was (trying to) make a joke to bring it back to the OP...

 

[Micah Sweet]

I thought the best option is to make dozens of posts trying to convince other people why it shouldn't make sense to them, either.

Cute.

 

[Lanefan]

Amusing that these two posts came one right after the other in this order:

The company owns MTG. Do we really want to see instants, interupts, and sorcery and then have to figure out stacks and whatnot? Not me.

Even better, each counterspell is just an instant to cast so they are the same casting time and casting happens sequentially, but each only resolves just before the final component of the spell it is countering. This means they cast sequentially but resolve to counter in reverse order.

Last In First Out (LIFO) is the M:tG stack model! And yes, it doesn't work the moment the tiniest bit of simulation is applied.

And @Digdude@1970 , I wasn't talking about stacks etc. but spells each taking time in the round to cast. For example, if your initiative is 15 and your action is to cast a Fireball, it takes 6 initiative pips to cast and thus doesn't go off until initiative 9 (2 pips per spell level seems about right for this). During that casting time the caster is completely focused on casting the spell and is thus pretty much defenseless, making it easier to interrupt the casting.

Some spells might not use the 2-pips-per-level model. Example: Featherfall, Counterspell, Command, and the various Power Word spells might each only take one pip (and thus could not be countered as Counterspell takes too long) while a variety of other spells (mostly Detect xxxx ones) might take a whole round to cast.

 

[Bill Zebub]

And yes, it doesn't work the moment the tiniest bit of simulation is applied.

That reminds me of the old joke, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." "Then don't do that."

 

[Lanefan]

What a tangent though, eh? I guess someone upthread said the player indicating that their PC was wearing gloves was like a reaction spell and here we are.

It's not really that much of a tangent: the business about the gloves (which was seen by some as the player attempting a retcon) expanded into a broader discussion around retcons, both system-based and not; and Counterspell was brought up as an example of a system-allowed retcon.

 

[Lanefan]

The rules that govern how magic works are fictional. We can choose to craft a fiction that allows for the game to work the way it does, or we can choose to craft a fiction that conflicts with how the game works.

Or we can design rules that support consistent in-fiction logic rather than shred it.

The rules serve the fiction. If the fiction has to twist itself in order to accommodate the rules, something's gone wrong somewhere.

 

[Clint_L]

I prefer the looser casting rules because they allow the narrative to be more flexible. Going back to the counterspell example, having one player able to counter another's counter is fun, and allowing casting times to be flexible (which to me is more logical anyway, but that's besides the point) permits the story to keep moving and make sense. For me, story always comes ahead of mechanics, so my priority is maintaining a narrative that is fun and makes sense, and if the mechanics are interfering with that, then they gotta give.

I tend to hand wave a lot of stuff at my table. Like, if a player wants to try something that is outside RAW but seems like an awesome idea that will take the story in a fun direction, I am inclined to go with it and see what happens. Instead of "that's not really how charm person works, sorry," I'll probably say, "huh - that's creative. Let's see what happens!" Within reason.

 

[Bill Zebub]

If the fiction has to twist itself in order to accommodate the rules

Except almost nobody else seems even remotely bothered by the twisting that is apparently so jarring to you. So what gives? Are you trying to convince us we aren't having fun? What is this thread derailment even about?