Pathfinder 2E Tiers of play?

[Lojaan]

Hello smart Pathfinder people, another question from an ex-5er: does PF2 have tiers of play? That is levels where character power jumps up noticeably?

The 5e idea behind tiers (which I think was never really executed in game) was that your character story progression looked like this:

Levels 1-4: local problems
Levels 5-10; regional problems
Levels 11-15: national problems
Levels 16+: global problems

These tiers were supposed to correlate to power jumps in the PCs, which they sort of did. Eg Level 5 being a big power jump as martials got multi-attack, and casters access to lvl 3 spells.

Does this happen in PF2? I personally liked it because I could create In game RP reasons for power jumps, like getting a new teacher and the like.

 

[payn]

You seem to have the right idea. Id say PF2 is even more tiered in its play based on how impactful level scaling is.

 

[mellored]

There are not really any "jumps", in power, but maybe a few "bumps".

Most of the scaling is done by everyone getting +1 to their attacks and defense every level. So that's +20 on it's own, and you get another +10 or so with proficiency, stats, and weapons. Each being staggered at different levels and different classes.

So things scale things up a lot (+30), but it also keeps it pretty smooth overall.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

and you get another +10 or so with proficiency, stats, and weapons.

typically it's a decent bit more then that (+6-8 from proficiency, +6-7 from stat and an apex item, +3 from weapon if you're a martial - really it's +14 on the low end since casters get legendary proficiency with spells but can't get item bonuses, and +18 on the high end because fighters are insane).

edit: also it should be noted you add your level to your proficiency bonus, so if you're not proficient in something you don't add your level to it (unless you have something like untrained improvisation but even then i think you can only circumvent it for skills). that said, if by level 20 you're not kitted out in stuff you're proficient with...i don't know what to tell you.

 

[mellored]

typically it's a decent bit more then that (+6-8 from proficiency, +6-7 from stat and an apex item, +3 from weapon if you're a martial - really it's +14 on the low end since casters get legendary proficiency with spells but can't get item bonuses, and +18 on the high end because fighters are insane).

I was speaking of the scaling, not the total.

You start with +2 proficiency, and end up with +6. Net gain is 4
Fighters who start with +4 go to +8, net gain of 4
Same with ability scores. Start with +3/4, goes to +6/7. Net gain of +3.
And then +3 weapons.
*and actually, you start with a +1 level, so that's only +19.

So, a level 1 monk would have +7 to hit, and a level 20 monk would have +36 to hit.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

I was speaking of the scaling, not the total.

ah, okay.

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

They aren't formalized and its more of a gradient, but it generally does follow the same sort of curve, I think one difference is that the default setting tends toward higher power levels, so the division between the scale of problems is less important. Its easier to imagine high level characters dealing with a particularly nasty local problem, or characters level 5-10 worrying about problems on a more national level. But even that's probably debatable because you could say the same of 5e or 4e or whatever. The curve of "what power level should I be imagining the action at" is more pronounced, with Martials slipping into supernatural territory pretty quickly via feats faster than they do in DND.

 

[willrali]

It really depends on the setting. I home brew a low magic setting. The boss of a powerful thieve’s guild will be a level 5 rogue. The knight-commander of the templars will be a level 5 champion. The finest master of defense on the continent will be a level 6 fighter. These are formidable opponents who will mop the floor with mobs of ordinary soldiers, thugs, and any natural threat.

The way PF2’s power scales, once PCs reach level 10, they leave these even powerful characters in the dust. As in, they’re more or less untouchable, and they’ll be scything through any ordinary threat in their way. They might be facing the continent’s necromancer (level 12 wizard) and his apprentice (level 5 wizard) as once-in-a-century, kingdom-threatening entities.

Levels 15-20 are so powerful that danger is truly cosmic, and usually planar.

But the default setting has stupendous threats tucked into every corner, so the geographic scope of threats is much more variable.