D&D 5E Is it right for WoTC to moralize us in an adventure module?

[Emoshin]

At the risk of embroiling myself in this particular debate, I would have some questions...

We know that:

• The prisoner has these magical tattoos, to telepathically coordinate agents throughout Faerûn and beyond (presumably when she is outside her cell)
• Each cell is permanently blanketed in antimagic (9th level)
• There is other magic around the prison, like arcane lock (2nd level)

Now I like to do a bit of due diligence when it comes to worldbuilding:

Question #1: If this "magitech" prison has the ability to do things like 9th level antimagic, do they also have the ability to do 1st level detect magic? I'd say yes.

Question #2: Whoever designed this "magitech" prison, are they relatively resourceful and intelligent? I'd say yes.

Question #3: Is it plausible that, when at any point upon or during incarceration, that prisoners be subject to a detect magic scan? Given #1 and #2, I'd say yes.

Question #4: Would it be paramount for the prison to nullify her tattoos, preventing her continuing crimes? I'd say 100% yes.

Question #5: Have many different concerns been raised by various posters on this thread -- such as how the PCs are expected to assess the tattoo is a key and so much more -- and probably elsewhere online and offline? I'd say definitely!

Question #6: Given #5, could there be a different more cohesive story that could have been written that would not have put us in this awkward situation we find ourselves here right now? I'd say: beyond a doubt.

Question #7: What does all of this mean ultimately? Well, we have a number of proposed solutions. I know what I would do, but it does seem like people cannot agree on the best outcome that appeals to everyone. This is probably a question that will never be solved.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Question #7: What does all of this mean ultimately? Well, we have a number of proposed solutions. I know what I would do, but it does seem like people cannot agree on the best outcome that appeals to everyone. This is probably a question that will never be solved.

But we don't need to agree on "the best outcome" here. IMO, we, as DMs, need to play the scenario at a real table and let the players come up with a reasonable solution and, as appropriate, let the dice fall where they may. Or am I misunderstanding your point about "the best outcome that appeals to everyone."?

 

[Emoshin]

But we don't need to agree on "the best outcome" here. IMO, we, as DMs, need to play the scenario at a real table and let the players come up with a reasonable solution and, as appropriate, let the dice fall where they may. Or am I misunderstanding your point about "the best outcome that appeals to everyone."?

Good question! I think we have:

• DMs who read this adventure and say I won't run it
• DMs who read this adventure and say I want to run it as is
• DMs who read this adventure and say maybe I want to run it but I don't like it as is and I will change it
• DMs who read this adventure and say I don't know, I don't like it and go on Enworld and try to figure stuff out [insert your respective intention]

Also

• Players who play this adventure and will like the net result
• Players who play this adventure and will not like the net result

So you have all these different possibilities. The idea of "we, as DMs, need to play the scenario at a real table and let the players come up with a reasonable solution" is part of but not does cover ALL of those scenarios.

I didn't say we need to agree on the best outcome. I think there's only a potential "best outcome" for those who agree on certain parameters. Otherwise, it's a lost cause.

 

[Steampunkette]

At the risk of embroiling myself in this particular debate, I would have some questions...

We know that:

• The prisoner has these magical tattoos, to telepathically coordinate agents throughout Faerûn and beyond (presumably when she is outside her cell)
• Each cell is permanently blanketed in antimagic (9th level)
• There is other magic around the prison, like arcane lock (2nd level)

Now I like to do a bit of due diligence when it comes to worldbuilding:

Question #1: If this "magitech" prison has the ability to do things like 9th level antimagic, do they also have the ability to do 1st level detect magic? I'd say yes.

Question #2: Whoever designed this "magitech" prison, are they relatively resourceful and intelligent? I'd say yes.

Question #3: Is it plausible that, when at any point upon or during incarceration, that prisoners be subject to a detect magic scan? Given #1 and #2, I'd say yes.

Question #4: Would it be paramount for the prison to nullify her tattoos, preventing her continuing crimes? I'd say 100% yes.

Question #5: Have many different concerns been raised by various posters on this thread -- such as how the PCs are expected to assess the tattoo is a key and so much more -- and probably elsewhere online and offline? I'd say definitely!

Question #6: Given #5, could there be a different more cohesive story that could have been written that would not have put us in this awkward situation we find ourselves here right now? I'd say: beyond a doubt.

Question #7: What does all of this mean ultimately? Well, we have a number of proposed solutions. I know what I would do, but it does seem like people cannot agree on the best outcome that appeals to everyone. This is probably a question that will never be solved.

Addendum to question 3 and 4:

Are Psionics Magic?

The Psionic Tattoos work in an Antimagic Prison. So... no?

Which ultimately negates both of these questions. Detect Magic and Dispel Magic don't work on Psionics.

 

[Emoshin]

Addendum to question 3 and 4:

Are Psionics Magic?

The Psionic Tattoos work in an Antimagic Prison. So... no?

Which ultimately negates both of these questions. Detect Magic and Dispel Magic don't work on Psionics.

I had this question regarding mind flayers and anti-magic. It looks like originally mind flayer mind blast was magically emitted. Then Volo's Guide removed the "magically" part or made it optional IIRC. But then in Monsters of the Multiverse it went back to "magically". I'm going by memory, don't recall exactly.

Point is: I thought about it, I interpretated that 5E submits that psionics is a form of magic (like primal or divine or whatnot) and that made sense to me, and I went with it. So in my game, it does NOT negate either question.

Plus I believe IIRC that the adventure explicitly calls it magical tattoos, not psionic tattoos.

 

[Oofta]

Good question! I think we have:

• DMs who read this adventure and say I won't run it
• DMs who read this adventure and say I want to run it as is
• DMs who read this adventure and say maybe I want to run it but I don't like it as is and I will change it
• DMs who read this adventure and say I don't know, I don't like it and go on Enworld and try to figure stuff out [insert your respective intention]

You forgot: DMs who accept that the mod doesn't tell you how to run it. It just sets up the environment, let's you know who's who and what their motivations are along with some insight into who they are. It's an outline for an adventure in a sense, much like Dragon Heist which is mostly a source book for Waterdeep with an intro module.

Also

• Players who play this adventure and will like the net result
• Players who play this adventure and will not like the net result

So you have all these different possibilities. The idea of "we, as DMs, need to play the scenario at a real table and let the players come up with a reasonable solution" is part of but not does cover ALL of those scenarios.

I didn't say we need to agree on the best outcome. I think there's only a potential "best outcome" for those who agree on certain parameters. Otherwise, it's a lost cause.

In any case, as per previous posts ... this mod isn't really telling you what to do or how. It's just giving you the structure to run an adventure. As part of an anthology, I assume there was a pretty tight word count limit and the actual prisoner 13 is really more of a McGuffin to introduce a cool location than anything.

I don't know how this should be advertised, but I think if you find it lacking from a direction point of view it's because it's just not that kind of mod. Fortunately you didn't have to pay anything for this one, so you could get an idea of what the anthology is all about. Perhaps this is something that they'll continue to do? Who knows. Maybe they could label things that way, maybe not. But they don't have the word count (or capability, really) to explore every option and the danger with trying to do that is that it then limits the imagination of the people running and playing the game. If I didn't know how to run this, I'd be looking at the DmsGuild or finding a forum to discuss.

 

[Steampunkette]

I had this question regarding mind flayers and anti-magic. It looks like originally mind flayer mind blast was magically emitted. Then Volo's Guide removed the "magically" part or made it optional IIRC. But then in Monsters of the Multiverse it went back to "magically". I'm going by memory, don't recall exactly.

Point is: I thought about it, I interpretated that 5E submits that psionics is a form of magic (like primal or divine or whatnot) and that made sense to me, and I went with it. So in my game, it does NOT negate either question.

Plus I believe IIRC that the adventure explicitly calls it magical tattoos, not psionic tattoos.

Oh, you're ABSOLUTELY right. Psionics -are- Magic in 5e. That's been the case since the PHB dropped and people sent questions to Sage Advice about it.

But for this one adventure: they work in the antimagic prison where all other magic ceases function and are therefore not magic.

Likely through the writer or editor's oversight.

 

[Emoshin]

You forgot: DMs who accept that the mod doesn't tell you how to run it. It just sets up the environment, let's you know who's who and what their motivations are along with some insight into who they are. It's an outline for an adventure in a sense, much like Dragon Heist which is mostly a source book for Waterdeep with an intro module.

I don't agree that I forgot that (as you claimed).

In your case, what is the DM doing exactly with the adventure? Is the DM changing anything about it?
If yes, "DMs who read this adventure and say maybe I want to run it but I don't like it as is and I will change it"
If not, "DMs who read this adventure and say I want to run it as is"

Perhaps my exact wording doesn't suit you or represent you 100%, in which case you could be right to point that out, but I didn't forget how DMs assess modules differently.

In any case, as per previous posts ... this mod isn't really telling you what to do or how. It's just giving you the structure to run an adventure. As part of an anthology, I assume there was a pretty tight word count limit and the actual prisoner 13 is really more of a McGuffin to introduce a cool location than anything.

I don't know how this should be advertised, but I think if you find it lacking from a direction point of view it's because it's just not that kind of mod. Fortunately you didn't have to pay anything for this one, so you could get an idea of what the anthology is all about. Perhaps this is something that they'll continue to do? Who knows. Maybe they could label things that way, maybe not. But they don't have the word count (or capability, really) to explore every option and the danger with trying to do that is that it then limits the imagination of the people running and playing the game. If I didn't know how to run this, I'd be looking at the DmsGuild or finding a forum to discuss.

See above. EDIT: and most specifically around "best outcomes". I don't feel it is productive to respond to you about your suggestion when we don't even agree on the same parameters.

 

[Oofta]

At the risk of embroiling myself in this particular debate, I would have some questions...

We know that:

• The prisoner has these magical tattoos, to telepathically coordinate agents throughout Faerûn and beyond (presumably when she is outside her cell)
• Each cell is permanently blanketed in antimagic (9th level)
• There is other magic around the prison, like arcane lock (2nd level)

Now I like to do a bit of due diligence when it comes to worldbuilding:

Question #1: If this "magitech" prison has the ability to do things like 9th level antimagic, do they also have the ability to do 1st level detect magic? I'd say yes.

I'd say that's not a valid conclusion. There are various spells that have a long lasting specific effect in an area but does not do ongoing active magic. In addition, there are ways to hide magic.

Question #2: Whoever designed this "magitech" prison, are they relatively resourceful and intelligent? I'd say yes.

Question #3: Is it plausible that, when at any point upon or during incarceration, that prisoners be subject to a detect magic scan? Given #1 and #2, I'd say yes.

Question #4: Would it be paramount for the prison to nullify her tattoos, preventing her continuing crimes? I'd say 100% yes.

Question #5: Have many different concerns been raised by various posters on this thread -- such as how the PCs are expected to assess the tattoo is a key and so much more -- and probably elsewhere online and offline? I'd say definitely!

See my answer to question #1. For that matter, this prison could be located here because there was a pre-existing anti-magic zone of unknown origin. You're building questions 2-5 on an assumption about question #1.

Question #6: Given #5, could there be a different more cohesive story that could have been written that would not have put us in this awkward situation we find ourselves here right now? I'd say: beyond a doubt.

It's not telling you what to do, just what the situation is. I don't personally have a problem with that.

Question #7: What does all of this mean ultimately? Well, we have a number of proposed solutions. I know what I would do, but it does seem like people cannot agree on the best outcome that appeals to everyone. This is probably a question that will never be solved.

It shouldn't be "solved" for everyone who can potentially play this because the answer depend on the people at the table. Maybe the group works with the warden and creates a phony ledger. Maybe they subdue the prisoner, cut off her hand and then heal her. Maybe they do any number of things I haven't thought of. This isn't a railroad, it's not up to the author of the module to decide how you resolve it. That's up to the individual DM and group.

 

[Oofta]

I don't agree that I forgot that (as you claimed).

In your case, what is the DM doing exactly with the adventure? Is the DM changing anything about it?
If yes, "DMs who read this adventure and say maybe I want to run it but I don't like it as is and I will change it"
If not, "DMs who read this adventure and say I want to run it as is"

Perhaps my exact wording doesn't suit you or represent you 100%, in which case you could be right to point that out, but I didn't forget how DMs assess modules differently.


See above.

Meh. Semantics. I don't need to change it, running it as it is presumes you follow some predefined solution and not an alternative solution not provided.