D&D 5E Martials should just get free feats

[Neonchameleon]

I still think spells are the best way to do this though. Giving a "non-magical" class the ability to leap buildings without magic seems a bit silly thematically, but if you left the present fighter unmolested AND did not give the class itself more martial capability than then current fighter I would not be against the idea.

Why? When a dragon flies it's not through a spell. When a giant throws the square-cube law out of the window it's not through a spell. Why, when in order to perform like Beowulf or any other mythical hero does a fighter have to wiggle their fingers and say some magical words?

Personally I find the restriction of magic to spells and items to be extremely silly thematically especially in the light of hit points. Why does skill need to be held back to a below real world physics level (thanks to hit points among other things) when it is very clear that things in excess of what is physically possible in the real world are a part of the D&D world.

And what I find even sillier is the necessary break of magic into the haves and have-nots while not using Ars-Magica style worldbuilding and rules where it's explicitly about wizards and muggles.

 

[leozg]

A lot of discussion regarding fighters and spellcasters and I just would like to point it is frustrating to play high level martials in 5e. I like to play non-spellcasting fighters and barbarians and the moment when they should excel, which is in combat, they are shadowed by the spellcasters killing more enemies with fireballs and finger of deaths. All other things spellcasters can do better than martials, but combat martials should be way better. Otherwise, why would you play a martial?
3e tried to solve this problem in Tome of Battle - Book of Nine Swords, 4e came with the powers, both gave martials spell-like abilities aiming balance, but it is not an organic solution.
The feat suggestion is a an excellent one for 5e.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I still think spells are the best way to do this though. Giving a "non-magical" class the ability to leap buildings without magic seems a bit silly thematically, but if you left the present fighter unmolested AND did not give the class itself more martial capability than then current fighter I would not be against the idea.

if we wanted spells the hexblade and the swordbard and the baldsinger and the warcleric would handle it...
what we want is non spell supernatural and/or extraordinary (dare I say uncanny) warrior

 

[James Gasik]

Even if spells would be the simplest solution, given that both TSR and WotC have long found it easier to design new spells and make non-spell abilities work like spells, it comes down to this:

A large group of the fanbase doesn't want spells, doesn't like spells, and doesn't want their fighter to be a magic finger wiggler. They want Fighters to be REAL MEN (or WOMEN) DOING THINGS REAL MEN (or WOMEN) DO AND FIGHTING MONSTERS WITH REAL MAN (or WOMAN) POWER!

Thus the D&D Fighter is John McClane. Just a regular guy in an improbable situation, somehow performing epic feats without any explicit supernatural ability, and being able to survive falls, explosions, loss of blood, lacerations, blunt trauma, electrocution, gunshots, and yes, even nuclear radiation. He gets bloody and beat up, but he never stops.

 

[Vaalingrade]

The problem with giving martials actual abilities that the system respects is that the chorus will appear from the sky, screaming that it's just a spell.

We tried that. The fandom won't allow that. Next swing.

 

[Neonchameleon]

The problem with giving martials actual abilities that the system respects is that the chorus will appear from the sky, screaming that it's just a spell.

We tried that. The fandom won't allow that. Next swing.

I think that the number of people who think 3.X's insistence on using "Spell-like abilities" and all the other pseudo-realistic ideas of 3.0/3.5 was a good idea have decreased over time, and the majority of 5e players started with 5e. I haven't, for example, seen much backlash against fighters literally getting to recover hit points in combat (second wind) or even against the Echo Knight which is massively supernatural without ever going near a spell.

And yet the "shouting hands back on" nonsense attacks on the warlord should be even more applicable to 5e fighters' second wind. That's if they weren't nonsense all along. (And that's without getting into the Champion Fighter's regeneration).

 

[JiffyPopTart]

I have only skimmed this thread so forgive me if this has already been brought up...

I have a suggestion for making martials have more interesting abilities that would also work for those who don't want to make them "magical" in nature.

What if, instead of feats, you baked in increasingly powerful magical items into level up? Much like a wizard learns 2 spells per level, maybe the martials can power up a suit of armor or favored weapon.

Giving martials a cheat on gear would go a long way towards giving them the ability to interesting things (boots of flying) without ruining your fiction that "regular dwarves don't fly".

 

[W'rkncacnter]

What if, instead of feats, you baked in increasingly powerful magical items into level up? Much like a wizard learns 2 spells per level, maybe the martials can power up a suit of armor or favored weapon.

Giving martials a cheat on gear would go a long way towards giving them the ability to interesting things (boots of flying) without ruining your fiction that "regular dwarves don't fly".

my concern would be that you've now negated the entire point of the artificer existing at all (which was already strained in 5e due to the lack of functional magic item crafting rules).

 

[JiffyPopTart]

my concern would be that you've now negated the entire point of the artificer existing at all (which was already strained in 5e due to the lack of functional magic item crafting rules).

I've never played or played with an artificer, but my understanding was their thing was making on the fly temporary items that fit the specific scenario.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

I've never played or played with an artificer, but my understanding was their thing was making on the fly temporary items that fit the specific scenario.

from what i've seen, not really? it takes a long rest to infuse literally anything and you basically only get 2 infusion options per infusion slot. infusions seem to be less "temporary items to fit the specific scenario" and more a stand-in for an actually functional crafting system.

i was also speaking thematically - what's the point of playing as a magic item craftsmen when literally every martial character already has (effectively) crafting their own magic items baked into their class? the entire idea just feels kind of redundant at that point.