D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Emberashh]

Actually was actually in a lower power position than the balrog in a way, despite both being Maia, because the Istari were sent to Middle-Earth in incarnate, mortal bodies, albeit long-lived, and could die.

True enough, but afaik Balrogs weren't really any more immortal. The forms the two take Id wager are more akin to different tiers of armor.

Gandalfs old man body might be the rusty iron the Balrogs demon-iron.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Near as I can tell the only humans we've been talking about specifically are those created using the rules for character creation included in the PHB. You know, the human fighters and wizards etc that have been relevant to.the conversation.

I don't think anyone other than you has been willing to assert how magical humans may or may not be in the setting generally.

Dogs learn to speak Common, people flying. These things have been tossed around, and not just for PCs.

 

[Hussar]

Would it be possible to take as written that any new class or subclass or potentially alternative abilities would come with some sort of flavour text? Could we just take that as written and move on?

 

[Pedantic]

Would it be possible to take as written that any new class or subclass or potentially alternative abilities would come with some sort of flavour text? Could we just take that as written and move on?

It does feel a bit like we're arguing with ghosts. I'm still not sure you're ever going to get away with printing blatantly supernatural abilities on a class called "Fighter" and I don't think moving level appropriate utility entirely into the subclass is a great idea, but it's a start.

 

[Eubani]

I’m afraid to ask.

SSS?

Society for Spellcasting Supremacy

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

Second Wind is just the boost stamina from a quick rest. It heals in D&D because of the vagueness of HP.

This is another bad D&D design thing. The game varies on when things are suppose to directly correlate with an in game thing, and when something is an abstraction of an in game thing. And the game is rarely explicit on the topic.

Even 4e, which I believe did take a stand where everything was meant to be abstractions and not one to one mapped onto in game reality didn't really come out and explicitly lay this out. E.g. in 4e there was no "cleave" technique that the Fighter knew, this was a player button that represented something like this that the character did know how to do.

Whichever way you do it (or both) be very up front about it.

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

It does feel a bit like we're arguing with ghosts. I'm still not sure you're ever going to get away with printing blatantly supernatural abilities on a class called "Fighter" and I don't think moving level appropriate utility entirely into the subclass is a great idea, but it's a start.

I'm not why we'd want to do this either. It risks taking away something some people do like which is what I really dislike about the "no mythic martial in the game even if it is no more powerful than a Wizard" stance. Let's give both camps what they want.

Keep the Fighter for those that don't see issues or want that kind of mundane hero and they can have a separate design conversation around tweaking in on the margin.

Create a separate class for the mythic martials.

 

[Emberashh]

It does feel a bit like we're arguing with ghosts. I'm still not sure you're ever going to get away with printing blatantly supernatural abilities on a class called "Fighter" and I don't think moving level appropriate utility entirely into the subclass is a great idea, but it's a start.

I think we could do that by just not explaining it.

Ive been in a bit of a distraction chasing some hard scifi white whales (if Peter Watts can put frickin Vampires in a hard scifi novel I can do psionics dang flabbit), and something that tends to make hard scifi work is not getting too deep in the weeds trying to explain things, especially when they're approaching the fantastical.

In the Arquera subclass I posted earlier, I don't really "explain" why they can do certain things like hyper eyesight or being able to punch a hole into a ship with a bow and arrow.

I just simply assert them as things the Arquera can do.

Call it soft mundaneity, a useful and necessary counterpart to hard magic.

 

[Yaarel]

something that tends to make hard scifi work is not getting too deep in the weeds trying to explain things

If the scifi is unexplainable, then it cannot be "hard" scifi.

Science can be intuitive (as a kind of protoscience that at least coheres with what is known to be scientifically true). And scifi can speculate about things that may or may not be possible, such as time travel or FTL (faster than light travel).

But "hard" means things that are scientific facts are made part of a scenario for a thought experiment.

 

[Yaarel]

Since @Chaosmancer is comfortable with the concept that high level Fighters are utilizing their ki, but without the mechanic of ki points, I suggest we focus on this approach for the superhuman Fighter concepts.

I have the impression that Chaosmancer wants Fighters to be competent at the superhuman high tiers, but also wants to avoid "magic" terminology, especially if suggesting the casting of any spells. This view seems in tune with many other D&D players as well.

Minimally, ki powers are "psychosomatic", such as the adrenaline of a mother lifting a car to save her baby.

Maximally, there is a kind of warrior mysticism.

The ki is an aspect of the soul, specifically the aspect that forms an aura of lifeforce around a living body. It is bodily oriented, sensorial, can be animalistic, and seems suitable for the Fighter flavor of heightened physical prowess.