D&D (2024) Asians Represent: "Has WotC Fixed the D&D Monk?"

[Vaalingrade]

Go watch modern oriental movies.

Bruh.

 

[MGibster]

There's been some discussion about why you don't need a Samurai class when the Fighter will do just fine. But it got me thinking, it's a bit odd the words martial arts are used almost exclusively to describe traditions that come from the east. Boxing is every bit the martial art that Taekwondo is. Ludwig von Liebenzell was a knight of the Teutonic Order in the 13th century, and the dude started training in the art of war at a young age. It's not like western warriors just flailed about randomly on the battlefield (okay, sometimes I'm sure they did), they were trained very often within the context of an established martial tradition.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It's really not just applied to East Asian martial arts writ large. Again, it's because the Monk is positioned as a practitioner of said East Asian martial arts and it's pretty easy to tell what is meant by 'martial arts' in this context.

In fact, I'd postulate that the fact that there's no capoira monk or cane fighting rogue is part of the problem: calling out an exocitizing east asian martial arts in particular as something so Other that it needs its own class dedicated just to it and keeping it apart from the rest of the game.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

The problem with sticking too closely to real martial arts experience in designing the monk is that you're almost certainly not going to get a class that nods at or invokes any of the wuxia media or Shaw Brothers films like Invincible Shaolin. And those are much closer in spirit to the fantasy literature that inspired D&D in the first place than reality or MMA fights.

Huh. I've never met a martial artist who isn't a fan of that sort of thing, though. You start with knowledge-based inspiration in your design and move up to fantasy from there. My point generally is: IMO their lack of knowledge holds them back in what Monks can do, not the other way around.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah, unless you're trained in wearing armor for extended periods, it wears on you (no pun intended). More than people think.

Yeah when I was in the SCA the group I trained with did formation sprints in full gear to train our bodies to adjust to that weight.

Chain distributes weight really well, but it’s still weight, and it’s still mostly on your shoulders. Plate is actually better in some ways, since a lot of the weight is strapped onto limbs and such, rather than all hanging on you together.

DND East wouldn't be called Dungeons and Dragons; thats the first thing that'd have to go if you want be assumptive that the game is effectively perfect representation wise.

Yes, it would. There is no reason to change it. I mean it won’t ever happen, but if it did, it would still be D&D : XYZ

Oriental Adventures?

I don’t see them creating a ‘second D&D’ under a different name

Yeah I really doubt they’d do that.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The problem with sticking too closely to real martial arts experience in designing the monk is that you're almost certainly not going to get a class that nods at or invokes any of the wuxia media or Shaw Brothers films like Invincible Shaolin. And those are much closer in spirit to the fantasy literature that inspired D&D in the first place than reality or MMA fights.

Not really. You end up with a class that more closely resembles Asian martial arts stories/media, because it’s founded on an understanding of martial arts, and then built upon with an understanding of martial arts movies, books, legends, anime, etc.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Just my $.02. If you're going to have mundane/martial classes do extraordinary things, then your martial artist should probably more match classic kung fu movies and less modern MMA. It doesn't make sense to me to allow the superhuman abilities for fighters but insist on verisimilitude for martial arts. And vice versa.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Nothing should be like modern MMA.

MMA is like Survivor: it was cool and interesting at first when everyone was doing their own thing and feeling things out, then someone figured out the One Strat to win and sucked all interest and variation out of the room, turning it into the Midwest Money Hug to match Boxing's Out West Money Dance.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There's been some discussion about why you don't need a Samurai class when the Fighter will do just fine. But it got me thinking, it's a bit odd the words martial arts are used almost exclusively to describe traditions that come from the east. Boxing is every bit the martial art that Taekwondo is. Ludwig von Liebenzell was a knight of the Teutonic Order in the 13th century, and the dude started training in the art of war at a young age. It's not like western warriors just flailed about randomly on the battlefield (okay, sometimes I'm sure they did), they were trained very often within the context of an established martial tradition.

Its not odd, it's what their primary audience expects when they hear the phrase "martial arts". No reason for WotC to try to change their fan base.

 

[MGibster]

Its not odd, it's what their primary audience expects when they hear the phrase "martial arts". No reason for WotC to try to change their fan base.

Yeah, I get that. I just think it's odd that martial arts is a phrase almost exclusively used to describe eastern traditions. I know WotC didn't invent that.