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WotC Jeremy Crawford Interview: Playtests from experimental to focused. By Christian Hoffer at GenCon.

mamba

Legend
Lol you made a completely misleading statement about what happened.
not at all, I said the threshold said there should be an iteration and instead they threw it out, which is exactly what happened. I have no idea what is misleading about that. All I see is you making unfounded excuses for a thoroughly broken playtest.
 

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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Maybe, but then either do not offer us anything more than that in the playtest, or stick to the votes you get. Given that Crawford said that everything could have made it into the 2024 version, they failed the playtest. This playtest is a sham.
None of this follows from premise to conclusion. You ignored what their methodology actually is, chose to cling to a “not automatically thrown out” threshold as if it had ever been presented as a “this is automatically in” threshold, with a strong default toward compatibility when in doubt, and now you’re mad that stuff you liked didn’t make the cut.
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
Personally, I’d love to have fireball do even more damage but be harder to use safely. Really I want magic to interact with the world more in general. Whether that’s written into spell descriptions or general rules for Spellcasting and DM guidance on running the game, I want an ice AoE to create a patch of frozen ground, a wall of fire to radiate heat above it and catch things on fire within 10ft of it if they’re flammable and dry, and fireballs to fill the space they’re in.

But since that won’t happen, I’m fine with fireball doing a couple dice less damage, I guess. (Or whatever spell being lightly “nerfed”)
I mean, I would be fine with that, but it would want it to coincide with an environment of less overall spells being cast or moved into non-combat situations. Spells already eat up enough cognitive load at the table without making them take even longer to adjudicate.
 

mamba

Legend
You ignored what their methodology actually is, chose to cling to a “not automatically thrown out” threshold as if it had ever been presented as a “this is automatically in” threshold
No, it was the threshold to iterate on it, they did not iterate on it and instead threw it out. There is nothing to argue about here, you are denying facts.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
not at all, I said the threshold said there should be an iteration and instead they threw it out, which is exactly what happened. I have no idea what is misleading about that. All I see is you making unfounded excuses for a thoroughly broken playtest.
That is a direct falsehood. Multiple, actually. You said that they threw things out due to a vocal minority of “naysayers”, which there is no evidence of whatsoever, first of all.

You then claimed and still claim, falsely, that they ever promised that anything that meets 70% approval will definitely be in, or at least iterating in a public playtest document (as opposed to just internally), when that has never been the case, and they have explicitly said that mathematical approval by itself is not a guarantee of anything.

They were never obligated to publicly iterate every single idea that ever hit 70% or more approval, they never promised that, they never said that doing so as a rule was part of thier methodology.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
No, it was the threshold to iterate on it, they did not iterate on it and instead threw it out. There is nothing to argue about here, you are denying facts.
Prove it. Provide direct evidence of them explicitly saying that they will always iterate on something that hits 70% even if it hits that threshold with no real enthusiasm, or what it potentially changes or replaces scored higher, etc.

There is no such evidence, because what you are claiming is false.
 

mamba

Legend
That is a direct falsehood. Multiple, actually. You said that they threw things out due to a vocal minority of “naysayers”, which there is no evidence of whatsoever, first of all.
The evidence is that it exceeded 70% and they threw it out despite this.

You then claimed and still claim, falsely, that they ever promised that anything that meets 70% approval will definitely be in, or at least iterating in a public playtest document (as opposed to just internally)
yes, because that is what iterating means. How can you get from 70% to 80% with iteration when you never show it in a playtest again?

Your 'they iterated internally' is an unfounded, nonsensical excuse, nothing more.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I feel so VINDICATED RIGHT NOW. SO MANY PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM TOLD ME THAT OUR VIEWS WERE MINORITY!!! Hahahhaahah.

Defcon, @Charlaquin and all the rest — all that nonsense about this playtest process being healthy, good, or effective can go straight to the trash. This playtest was sabotaged just like the DND Next playtest was. Incredible. Just incredible.
When did I ever say the playtest process was good, healthy, or effective? I’ve been critical of their approach since D&D Next. I just accept that it’s not going to change.

EDIT: If anything, the fact that this shows they’re willing to make decisions based on more than just the satisfaction numbers is a positive thing in my opinion. That means it’s not pure design-by-committee, and they are actually willing to make decisions based on their own design goals and sensibilities. Good for them.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
I don't see how this project, with its stated "don't be a new edition, not even a 5.5" could be anything more than an options book by another name, maybe with a nice collection of errata.

I agree. That said, as we saw in the TSR era, there can be a fair amount of changes that can be done while remaining interoperable (or, to use the preferred nomenclature, backwards compatible.

I guess I'm just a little dissatisfied with the nature and scope of the proposed changes. While I understand their desire, and appreciate that they have followed through, with their previously announced intentions to carry through with the whole, "Evergreen" idea and the "Not a new edition" (despite the calumnies heaped upon them by people, including here), I still find this as dissatisfying as going to the paint store and debating the difference between "eggshell" and "off-white."
 


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