D&D (2024) Lawful, Chaotic, and Neutral touched species.

[Vaalingrade]

Along with aasimar and tieflings, there should be modron-touched, slaad-touched, and, most importantly, fey-touched.

This is probably why there aren't.

The representative creatures of Law and Chaos aren't things people relate to and want to play. Sure a lot of people have a fondness for Creepier Thomas The Tank Engine, and... accept the existence of disappointingly non-battletoads frog guys who even the lore says aren't supposed to be there, but how many want to play a dude flavored like them?

Fey would be a decent Chaos replacement if their actual alignment wasn't 'Fey' instead of the chaotic the stat block says, and there's.... really nothing interesting or compelling about Law. By necessity. The second you get a personality, the whole plane shifts.

 

[Hriston]

I've got to say I hate slaad in 5e. They're far more evil than chaotic, and don't embody their plane well at all.

Yeah, I’m using “slaad” here to mean whatever divine spirits inhabit Pandemonium as distinct from celestials and fiends. Same with "modron" for Nirvana. I’d prefer if they were called “lords of Chaos/lords of Law” or something myself. It's a bit odd that celestials and fiends take up most of the real estate in the outer planes, leaving just those two planes out. I think it would be better if there was an "outsider" creature type that they all fit into. I'd put fey there as well.

Also if a fey planetouched became a thing, you'd need a shadow planetouched to go along with it. As the feywild and shadowfell are mirrors of each other. Though you could argue that eldarin and shadar-kai fill those roles.

It's not clear to me who a shadow-touched lineage would be associated with in the same way that aasimar and tieflings are associated with celestials and fiends or that fey-touched would be associated with the fey. I suppose such a thing could exist, but it seems like something a bit different.

Eladrin and shadar-kai are elves, whereas I think the concept should at least allow for fey-touched (and maybe shadow-touched) humans.

 

[Aldarc]

and there's.... really nothing interesting or compelling about Law. By necessity. The second you get a personality, the whole plane shifts.

It turns out that people like peace, stability, and order in society. Chaotic societies cannot function, and humans are political animals.

 

[Hriston]

well there is already warforged and autognome for the Modron-touched, so something toad-like for Slaad? (albeit I agree with @Frozen_Heart, Slaad suck)

for Chaotic I’d look to something like the Korred. Chaotic neutral to cut off the ‘chaos=evil’ thing and also dips into fey making music, dance, charm and illusion chaotic

Warforged and autognomes are simply constructs, which IMO is the least interesting aspect of modrons. I'm more interested in a possibly human lineage associated with the divine inhabitants of Nirvana.

Korred seem to be a type of fey and are explicitly non-human. I'm more interested in a possibly human lineage associated with the fey -- just the same concept as aasimar and tieflings.

 

[Yaarel]

It turns out that people like peace, stability, and order in society. Chaotic societies cannot function, and humans are political animals.

Oppression is violent and is the opposite of "peace". Socalled "stability" can be stagnant, stifling, and repressive. An "order" that prevents people from being themselves − people dont like.

As it turns out, most people in the aggregate average a preference for a balance between Law and Chaos, a dynamic equilibrium between the two.

Similarly as ethical forces, where Law is group self-identity and Chaos is individual self-identity, mostly there is a Dao between that transcends the Yang and Yin, sotospeak.

Where D&D generally stats the Human species as "Neutral" or "Any Alignment", this seems accurate enough, including a mix between Law and Chaos, as well as a mix between Good and Evil actions. Regarding Good and Evil, most Humans are "normal". The extreme Good saints/altruists and the extreme Evil monsters/villains are quite rare. Similar goes for the extremes of Law and Chaos.

That said, I view a difference between the two axes. Re the Good and Evil axis, the Good is difficult effort and the overall result of the struggle is a mix.

But re the Law and Chaos axis, the Dao between them is an ideal.

 

[Aldarc]

Oppression is violent and is the opposite of "peace". Socalled "stability" can be stagnant, stifling, and repressive. An "order" that prevents people from being themselves − people dont like.

Depicting law only through the spectrum of "evil" or in the worst possible light is hardly a fair treatment of how law was commonly regarded as a "good" in human societies throughout history.

I would also point out that Chaos in a lot of mythological schemas is depicted as stagnant, unformed, and nothingness. Likewise Michael Moorcock's Corum stories shows and explicitly comments that a realm that had lost to Chaos had become far more stagnant, lifeless, and void than anything capable of by Law.

 

[Yaarel]

Depicting law only through the spectrum of "evil" or in the worst possible light is hardly a fair treatment of how law was commonly regarded as a "good" in human societies throughout history.

Yes. And. Your post might similarly have depicted Chaos "through the spectrum of evil"? If it implied that Chaos is identical to the absence of "peace"?

Both Law and Chaos are equally capable of doing either Good or Evil.

I would also point out that Chaos in a lot of mythological schemas is depicted as stagnant, unformed, and nothingness. Likewise Michael Moorcock's Corum stories shows and explicitly comments that a realm that had lost to Chaos had become far more stagnant, lifeless, and void than anything capable of by Law.

I understand the term "Chaos" is confusing because it has completely different meanings in different contexts.

In many mythologies, "chaos" is nothingness (or no-thing-ness). I have read some of Moorcock, and he seems to lean into "chaos" as mathematical unpredictable randomness (what can be called "Chaotic Stupid"). The earlier proto-D&D where there is only one axis between Law and Chaos, implies "civilization", or rather colonialist imperialism is as if good and disobedience to colonialist imperialism is as if evil.

All of these other meanings of Law and Chaos are less useful for an ethical map for a game.

In my games, Chaos means individual identify and Law means group identity, and nothing more than this. This helps keep the meanings clear, and thus useful as tags with ethical implications that can be equally Good or Evil, thus actually useful in my D&D.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Warforged and autognomes are simply constructs, which IMO is the least interesting aspect of modrons. I'm more interested in a possibly human lineage associated with the divine inhabitants of Nirvana.

Korred seem to be a type of fey and are explicitly non-human. I'm more interested in a possibly human lineage associated with the fey -- just the same concept as aasimar and tieflings.

in what ways would you distinguish a human fey-decendant from a half-elf? i get that elves aren't the only types of fey but...

 

[Tonguez]

Warforged and autognomes are simply constructs, which IMO is the least interesting aspect of modrons. I'm more interested in a possibly human lineage associated with the divine inhabitants of Nirvana.

Korred seem to be a type of fey and are explicitly non-human. I'm more interested in a possibly human lineage associated with the fey -- just the same concept as aasimar and tieflings.

fair enough, although 5e seems to be moving away from the idea that all hybrids are half-human.

personally I’d look to the Inevitables as a source for Nirvana-touched Human - judges and enforcers of ineffable law, bound by the Mark of Justice. Modrons with the Axiomatic mind and weird mathmatical symmetry could be spun into something, and I suppose there are enough rogue modrons in the lore to use as a template.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It turns out that people like peace, stability, and order in society.

Which we will war, kill, enslave and radicalize to get.

We are bad at all that stuff you just said and every time we try and get it, we end up reaching for the oppression and humanity erasure juice.

Law is D&D sees it is inherently bad.