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D&D 4E Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023

I've had more than one narrative game advocate tell me that my playstyle, simulationism, isn't actually real, because they are followers of the Forge. That certainly felt like "needless bashing of a game" to me. Not exactly accepting of other people's preferences either, which I certainly have been, whether I like them or not.
Sure, but it's not like there's actual organized "sides" where you can treat someone who disagrees with you on this thread, like they have conspired with someone who mistreated you on another thread, some time ago.

You wind up creating enemies out of potential allies when you paint everyone with one brush.
 

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Were there any numbers on the 4e PH sales?

I know we have the estimates from $10/month subscriptions later, but any hard numbers on PH to compare to the charts of Oe-3.5 stuff would be interesting.
As I recall, the actual number of 4E PHBs sold wasn't mentioned; just that they were markedly less than the 3.X PHBs.
 

Sure, but it's not like there's actual organized "sides" where you can treat someone who disagrees with you on this thread, like they have conspired with someone who mistreated you on another thread, some time ago.

You wind up creating enemies out of potential allies when you paint everyone with one brush.
In many, many cases it's the same people in multiple threads (on both sides).
 


Every edition has parts where the mechanics don't line up well with a "realistic" narrative. While playing D&D, we always have to smooth over the rough spots.

Maybe those bumps stood out worse for you in 4e (which is fine!) but 4e was not objectively worse for the phenomenon - it was just what it is.
Speaking for myself, 4e provided the most verisimilitudinous D&D experience I've had.

Combat made sense (because the whole "ablation of hp" thing was carried through to its logical conclusion, including proportionate recovery), and felt vibrant (because the effects inflicted gave a strong correlation to the fiction of the attacks, and the movement about the battlefield was very dynamic).

The progression of the PCs made sense, with the tiers of play underpinning that - for instance, the game was set up so that characters who have the power of demigods or gods could expect to be regarded, by the inhabitants of the imaginary world, in an appropriate way - they could liberate kingdoms, bandy words with Primordials, etc, and the skill challenge framework made these situations able to be resolved in a systematic way rather than relying just on player-GM negotiation.

The cosmology, and the integration of the Monster Manual into that cosmology, also supported PC progression and the tiers of play. And so did the way NPC/creature stat blocks were presented, and the way those stat blocks worked. I can't imagine how using the AD&D stat block for Orcus would be as easy, or produce the same sort of excitement in play, as when the PCs in my 4e game assaulted Orcus in his throne room.The ease of using the swarm rules to build Hobgoblin phalanxes, flights of Vrocks, etc, and then to actually adjudicate them in play.

So much of it just worked.
 

Does anyone remember how, before they cancelled 4e, they were going to put out a book that updated the PH material to later 4e standards? Did that material ever become available anywhere?
 


Does anyone remember how, before they cancelled 4e, they were going to put out a book that updated the PH material to later 4e standards? Did that material ever become available anywhere?
They released at least some of the material in PDF format. It was called Class Compendium.

EDIT: I have files for the Fighter, the Cleric, the Wizard and the Warlord, plus one for feats and another for Wizard Schools. I don't know if there were other files available for download back then; I think not, but I'm not 100% sure.
 



Into the Woods

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