D&D (2024) Do you think they will add more races to PHB2024 to make up for dropping other stuff?

[Parmandur]

Half-elves are already in, just no longer as a distinct species. But you can absolutely play one with the 2024 rules, and they can be half-elf and half-whatever you want, which is even better. What is out is treating them (and half-orcs) as unique species, unlike all other mixed species options.

I do hope thst theybput in some "hybrid Feats", so that someone who wants to make their Dwarf's first Level Background Fest their Gnomish heritage get a little something mechanical for it.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

Half-elves are already in, just no longer as a distinct species. But you can absolutely play one with the 2024 rules, and they can be half-elf and half-whatever you want, which is even better. What is out is treating them (and half-orcs) as unique species, unlike all other mixed species options.

I can sit at a table with a PC built using the human species stats, give it a fully cosmetic monkey tail, and call it a Saiyan (got Dragonball on the mind...sorry) so long as I have DM permission - doesn't make that character anything other that human. They can't turn into a King Kong-sized were-monkey under the light of the full moon, don't get stronger simply by recovering from injuries, and can't unlock any of the 50+ different forms of Super Saiyan without working something out elsewhere in their mechanics (and likely a whole lot of homebrew).

The goal of enabling any permutation of mixed-ancestry character without needing to enumerate each individual option as a bespoke statblock is something I wholeheartedly support, but the way they're going about it under the proposed rules means that a character going forward can no more be a half-elf/half-orc/whatever than my above character can be a Saiyan. I don't need them to be built as distinct species options, but I do think we need a standardized system that enables the DM/players to reliably construct one themselves, because the "Pick a Parent and Reflavor" methodology denies mixed-ancestry characters an important building block - the ability to have/develop a distinct shared identity based on a common ancestry.

It's not just the mechanics, it's the world-building implications. "Pick a Parent" robs mixed-ancestry characters of a key aspect of community and forces everyone into the paradigm of being the perpetual outsider that does not fully belong in the societies of (at least one of) their parents, even if their parents and all of their forebearers going back centuries are the exact same flavor of mixed lineage as they themselves are. A thousand-year-old community of Khoravar (half-elves) built under the new rules are either going to feel entirely human (because they all use human stats), entirely elven (because they all use elven stats), or randomly disconnected from one another (because some use human stats and others use elven stats, and who uses which is functionally nothing more than the result of a cosmic coinflip) - it no longer allows for Khoravar (or any mix of ancestries) to have a distinct identity of their own. Good enough, perhaps, for first-generation mixed-ancestry characters if all you care about is enforcing the perpetual outsider who doesn't fit in or Tolkien-style "you must choose to live as either one or the other" dynamic, but utterly lacking for characters from a mixed population that has been building a distinct communal identity for many generations.

I have no issue with people wanting a spectrum of mechanical options to represent their X/Y mixed ancestry character, ranging from fully-X to fully-Y, but denying the ability for anything to exist in between those two because it's too much work or too hard to balance is a cop-out that only makes the stated intent to allow for any permutation of mixed-ancestry character ring hollow. Should the proposed rules stand, no one will be able to play a mixed-ancestry character anymore, because they functionally won't exist beyond cosmetic details.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I can sit at a table with a PC built using the human species stats, give it a fully cosmetic monkey tail, and call it a Saiyan (got Dragonball on the mind...sorry) so long as I have DM permission - doesn't make that character anything other that human. They can't turn into a King Kong-sized were-monkey or one of the 50 different forms of Super Saiyan without working something out elsewhere in their mechanics (and likely a whole lot of homebrew).

The goal of enabling any permutation of mixed ancestry character without needing to enumerate each individual option as a bespoke statblock is something I wholeheartedly support, but the way they're going about it under the proposed rules means that a character going forward can no more be a half-elf/half-orc/whatever than my above character can be a Saiyan. I don't need them to be built as distinct species options, but I do think we need a standardized system that enables the DM/players to reliably construct one themselves, because the "Pick a Parent and Reflavor" methodology robs mixed ancestry characters of an important building block - the ability to have/develop a distinct shared identity based on a common ancestry.

It's not just the mechanics, it's the world-building implications. "Pick a Parent" robs mixed ancestry characters of a key aspect of community and forces everyone into the paradigm of being the perpetual outsider that does not fully belong in the societies of (at least one of) their parents, even if their parents and all of their forebearers going back centuries are the exact same flavor of mixed lineage as they themselves are. A thousand-year-old community of Khoravar (half-elves) built under the new rules are either going to feel entirely human (because they all use human stats), entirely elven (because they all use elven stats), or randomly disconnected from one another (because they use a mix of human and elven stats) - it no longer allows for Khoravar (or any mix of ancestries) to have a distinct identity of their own.

I have no issue with people wanting a spectrum of mechanical options to represent their X/Y mixed ancestry character, ranging from fully-X to fully-Y, but denying the ability for anything to exist in between those two because it's too much work or too hard to balance is a cop-out that only makes the stated intent to allow for any permutation of mixed-ancestry character ring hollow. Should the proposed rules stand, no one will be able to play a mixed-ancestry character anymore, because they functionally won't exist beyond cosmetic details.

Apparently, most players don't care about worldbuilding anyway, so maybe WotC figures they'll just weather the little squall from the half-dozen people who do.

 

[Mistwell]

Half-elves are already in, just no longer as a distinct species. But you can absolutely play one with the 2024 rules, and they can be half-elf and half-whatever you want, which is even better. What is out is treating them (and half-orcs) as unique species, unlike all other mixed species options.

I know. I think they will be put back in. Too long a history of that option as distinct, both in D&D (every edition) and fantasy literature. It's not backwards compatible if they do it as proposed. And as BG3 demonstrated, it's incredibly popular.

 

[Parmandur]

I know. I think they will be put back in. Too long a history of that option as distinct, both in D&D (every edition) and fantasy literature. It's not backwards compatible if they do it as proposed. And as BG3 demonstrated, it's incredibly popular.

They already knew from Beyond data that it is a popular option, and it remains backwards compatible insofar as a Half-Elf from the 2014 PHB is fully compatible still.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Apparently, most players don't care about worldbuilding anyway, so maybe WotC figures they'll just weather the little squall from the half-dozen people who do.

And most people who care about worldbuilding either want their own world not a cookie cutter D&D world (in which case who cares) or want individual worlds with setting books not some one size fits all world in the PHB.

 

[Remathilis]

You know what, screw it. I want every different two race combinations in the to be a unique stat-block. Every combination. No combo left out. If you want to play a dragonborn/halfling, there is a unique mechanic for that.

I figure every combination should only take up about 100 pages (with lore and art). They can cut some spells or classes or something to fit it.

Now people can have their half elf/human. And halfc elf/dwarf, and half elf/halfling, and half elf/gnome, and half elf/tieflng...

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

All we need is an option saying "Take the traits from your character's parent species and pick X traits from among them according to these guidelines...", then set some rules to try and curb the most blatant abuses and a note making it clear the final trait list is subject to DM approval.

That's all it would take - barely more than a modest revision to the existing "Pick a Parent" sidebar and basically just a formalization of the system Critical Role uses in Tal'dorei Reborn.

It's not hard, we're just shackled by cries of "Suffer not the min-maxer!!!"

 

[Mistwell]

They already knew from Beyond data that it is a popular option, and it remains backwards compatible insofar as a Half-Elf from the 2014 PHB is fully compatible still.

I get it. We disagree.

 

[Parmandur]

I get it. We disagree.

Sure, but I see nonreason to suspect that this will change substantially.