D&D (2024) Fighter (Playtest 7)

[Horwath]

No, and Crawford explains exactly why that's a bad idea.

Yeah, I saw him.

I also saw him fanboying about Flex mastery being "the bestest idea evah!"
How is it going for Flex in the latest playtest?

 

[Mistwell]

He explains why he thinks it's a bad idea, not why it is.

No he explains why it's a bad idea. They surveyed , they considered it, and found a meaningful number of fighter players don't want that complexity in the base class. Full stop, that's the reason, it's a good reason, and it wasnt based just on his opinion or guess.

 

[Mistwell]

Yeah, I saw him.

I also saw him fanboying about Flex mastery being "the bestest idea evah!"
How is it going for Flex in the latest playtest?

He thought flex was good. His discarding the splitting of battlemaster abilities to all fighters however was not just based on his opinion. Major difference there. In both cases he did what their customers wanted even if he personally disagrees in ine instance.

 

[Parmandur]

He thought flex was good. His discarding the splitting of battlemaster abilities to all fighters however was not just based on his opinion. Major difference there. In both cases he did what their customers wanted even if he personally disagrees in ine instance.

I mean, I'm pretty sure by the math and in actual practice Flex is quite good. But if people donlkke it, not worth it even if it works: user satisfaction and perception is more important than actual math even.

I recall in a discussion the Fighter on the Happy Fun Hour, Mike Mearls once detailed how the Brute had bombed in Unearthed Arcana because it was perceived as broken. Mearls said he had the hard math that showed it was exactly in line with other options...but it wasn't worth publishing if people perceived it as overpowered.

 

[Minigiant]

The issue is that there are no additional classes.

There is a desire for both a simple warrior and a complex warrior.

But there is only 1 fighter class. So the fighter has to have both simple and complex options.

 

[Neonchameleon]

The 13th Age monk is built along those lines; each form gives you three increasingly powerful attacks (opening, flow, and finishing), which are intended to be used in sequence.

I know. I've also played a 13th Age monk. Which is part of how I know the flaws of the approach. (And note to that GM - the Icons aren't meant to actively visit multiple times a session - and the gold dragon isn't a bathplug).

 

[Remathilis]

I mean, I'm pretty sure by the math and in actual practice Flex is quite good. But if people donlkke it, not worth it even if it works: user satisfaction and perception is more important than actual math even.

I recall in a discussion the Fighter on the Happy Fun Hour, Mike Mearls once detailed how the Brute had bombed in Unearthed Arcana because it was perceived as broken. Mearls said he had the hard math that showed it was exactly in line with other options...but it wasn't worth publishing if people perceived it as overpowered.

Part of the problem with playtests like this is very few people actually PLAY with these options. There is a chunk who crunch the numbers, but I'd say the vast majority goes by gut instinct alone. So even if an option is mathematically fine, if it doesn't pass the gut-check it's tossed.

 

[MuhVerisimilitude]

No he explains why it's a bad idea. They surveyed , they considered it, and found a meaningful number of fighter players don't want that complexity in the base class. Full stop, that's the reason, it's a good reason, and it wasnt based just on his opinion or guess.

But that's an easily solvable problem. All you need to do is break out the simple subclass from the fighter and make it a separate class entirely. Call it a Warrior or something like that.

In fact if you did that you could make it even simpler, since you could bake the subclass features of the champion into the main class, meaning that you can have a class without subclasses. That makes it even easier for new players.

 

[Stalker0]

Yeah, I saw him.

I also saw him fanboying about Flex mastery being "the bestest idea evah!"
How is it going for Flex in the latest playtest?

So your saying the head of the game had a personal opinion about an ability, but after receiving feedback from the playtest decided to change course.

Um.... isn't that what we want to happen?

 

[SkidAce]

Any warrior-type can do what Brawler does, better, from level 1, by having a Lance (reach, topple) and Halberd (reach, cleave) in their backpack.

How do they fit?