D&D (2024) 2024 needs to end 2014's passive aggressive efforts to remove magic items & other elements from d&d

[Minigiant]

But there is a problem with this in that it affects only some classes.

A wizard can play from levels 1-20 without ever needing a single magic item.

The fighter cannot.

A wizard still needs items for saving throw bonuses.

That's the issue.

5e is modelled after 2e and 3e that both used magic items. So it must have magic items bonuses factored in.

However since 5e's math is much lower, it is trivial for a DM to replace a magic item with a nonmagical masterwork item or another boon like a feat, bastion training, action points, or something.

 

[nevin]

A wizard still needs items for saving throw bonuses.

That's the issue.

5e is modelled after 2e and 3e that both used magic items. So it must have magic items bonuses factored in.

However since 5e's math is much lower, it is trivial for a DM to replace a magic item with a nonmagical masterwork item or another boon like a feat, bastion training, action points, or something.

don't know haven't seen a 5e game yet where the DM let the Wizard have any items that boosted thier saving throw bonuses. I guess it's because wizards are overpowered..... ..

 

[Horwath]

A wizard still needs items for saving throw bonuses.

That's the issue.

that is why nonproficient saves need half prof bonus to them(round down)

5e is modelled after 2e and 3e that both used magic items. So it must have magic items bonuses factored in.

yes and not. if there is not items that raise spell DCs, then there should not be need for items that raise saves.
non-proficient saves are another topic that I addressed above.

However since 5e's math is much lower, it is trivial for a DM to replace a magic item with a nonmagical masterwork item or another boon like a feat, bastion training, action points, or something.

100% yes.

 

[Yaarel]

4e has focuses with +1, +2, +3, etcetera.

5e can have this too.

 

[Horwath]

4e has focuses with +1, +2, +3, etcetera.

5e can have this too.

it has.

 

[Minigiant]

don't know haven't seen a 5e game yet where the DM let the Wizard have any items that boosted thier saving throw bonuses. I guess it's because wizards are overpowered..... ..

Because DMs of 5e don't run many casters nor alter spells on published monsters.

Target bad saves. The fighters and barbarians get held or charmed.

The wizard types get chucked off cliffs or melt.

 

[Yaarel]

it has.

Wand of the Warmage +1 only applies to "spell attacks", not normal spell DCs.

There needs to be wands and other focuses that boost normal spellcasting potency, namely the DC.

4e had this for every spellcasting.

5e can too.


Like any +bonus magic item, it also needs to do flavorful interesting things too.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

A wizard still needs items for saving throw bonuses.

No they do not. 2024 needs to make sure, that every save or suck effect gets multiple saves, not only a single one. Saving throws of 5e are a duration mechanic (like 4e saving throws) as well as a damage reduction mechanic (like 3e saving throws) .

For ongoing effects 3e and before tested if you affected the target at all and the duration was round/level and so on. 5e effects with a duration in most cases last for a maximum time and allows for a saving throw to get out early. The average duration of the effect increases, because the DC raises, so you get an increasing edge against bad saving throws.

I think some 2014 spell effects (like levitate) did not get the memo though.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

that is why nonproficient saves need half prof bonus to them(round down)

Maybe a good idea. Some progression even for bad saves seems ok, since most probably DCs for spells increase by more than prof bonus, because you raise your main stat.

The question is how you deal with the +1 for bad saves at level 1. Is it ok, that the gap is now just 1 point at level 1.

 

[Minigiant]

Wand of the Warmage +1 only applies to "spell attacks", not normal spell DCs.

There needs to be wands and other focuses that boost normal spellcasting potency, namely the DC.

4e had this for every spellcasting.

5e can too.


Like any +bonus magic item, it also needs to do flavorful interesting things too.

5e doesn't need this but it could use it.

The issue is 5e copied 3e's saving throw system where you are only good at 1/3 of your saving throws. Magic items and feats could cover your bad saves.

5e doesn't have a default feat nor magic item assumption. It copied the system without the assumption and replaced it with nothing.