WotC WotC can, and probably should support multiple editions of D&D.

[Staffan]

I never bought Jakandor.

Jakandor is actually the kind of thing they might be able to do today too. It was always envisioned as a limited thing: one island, about the size of Great Britain IIRC, with two rival human cultures and pretty much no other sapients. A total of three books (which would probably be one today): one for each side and one with some common things and a bunch of adventure/campaign ideas. Done.

The problem was trying to support multiple full-fledged campaign settings at once: Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Birthright, Planescape, Dark Sun, Mystara, Dragonlance, Al-Qadim, Spelljammer, Ravenloft, etc. (I think some of those probably didn't overlap, but still). And we're talking heavy support. Birthright had like 25 things released in two years (1995 and 1996) – sure, a lot of those were short "Player's Secrets of X", but it also included five boxed sets!

These are really the same issue.

Overall, TSR was losing money on RPG sales. That doesn't mean every book was unprofitable - the core books were still probably making money even in the lean years. But they were publishing a ton of other books that were losing money, and that business model basically developed because of the Random House deal.

I thought the Random House thing was primarily about the novels?

 

[Zardnaar]

Actually, it almost certainly isn't.

Someone collected the reported numbers for various TSR book sales into a single spreadsheet, and the total reached for the AD&D 1st edition PHB is 1,557,371 copies sold through 1990.

Per the numbers reported here, the 5e PHB sold 1,563,586 copies, through US retailers that are part of BookScan, as of mid-July 2023.

Now, I grant we're mixing data sources on the AD&D 1e PHB numbers. And there also have been print sales of the AD&D PHB since 1990 (the premium reprint, the current POD availability).

But, well. That stuff would have to total to a truly huge undercount to overcome the unknown number of 5th edition PHB sales through all channels that aren't US BookScan prior to mid-July 2023 (which includes all hobby channel sales, all non-US sales, and all sales of every type in the last 10 months).

Yup I have my personal estimate of 3-6 million for 5E. Based on cross references, size of rpg market 2013 vs 23.

I've also seen 5 million for 5E estimates.

 

[DEFCON 1]

WotC already does "support" older editions or versions of D&D. They sell all the older product on DriveThurRPG and DMs Guild.

An official TSR module that you don't already own is "new support" for your game as far as your table is concerned. Just buy that. It's just as "new" as something that someone at WotC could write right now. Especially considering that a module or supplement written in 2024 by someone at Wizards of the Coast is not going to automatically be "better" than some product published in 1983... and in fact would most likely be considered crap by a lot of people in comparison anyway (see: 5E Dragonlance / Van Helsing's Guide / Spelljammer / Planescape).

If you don't already own every single product previously published for whatever your edition/version of the game is... then you have a bonanza of "new support" right there waiting for you.

 

[Alzrius]

If you don't already own every single product previously published for whatever your edition/version of the game is...

 

[BigZebra]

WotC already does "support" older editions or versions of D&D. They sell all the older product on DriveThurRPG and DMs Guild.

An official TSR module that you don't already own is "new support" for your game as far as your table is concerned. Just buy that. It's just as "new" as something that someone at WotC could write right now. Especially considering that a module or supplement written in 2024 by someone at Wizards of the Coast is not going to automatically be "better" than some product published in 1983... and in fact would most likely be considered crap by a lot of people in comparison anyway (see: 5E Dragonlance / Van Helsing's Guide / Spelljammer / Planescape).

If you don't already own every single product previously published for whatever your edition/version of the game is... then you have a bonanza of "new support" right there waiting for you.

Exactly.
Also if you're using Fantasy Grounds, there's a ton of material on there as well: D&D Classics

 

[KYRON45]

This feels like hair-splitting.

The fact of the matter is that video game companies have no fear of flooding the market with content or about competing with themselves.

EA is not saying "whoa, we can't release Madden '25 -- it'll cannibalize sales of Madden '24!" A large part of their business model is built around the fact that fans will reliably drop $70 on the new version year after year.

TTRPGs aren't some special unique product category. Heck, TTRPG fans can reliably be counted on to purchase stuff they don't need (if you've actually run and completed every adventure WotC has published for 5E, WotC should buy you and your group VIP tickets to GenCon) that already duplicates the stuff that they've got (no one really needs dozens of dice, as much as it pains me to say it).

This is a true story.

 

[Clint_L]

If WotC were to do a second side-along edition (which I've been saying they should for ages) I'd like to see it be a hybrid of BX and 1e, arrived at by stripping out the bits of 1e that very few tables ever used and simplifying some other bits a little, while keeping the idea of discrete subsystems rather than unified mechanics.

But why would they do that on the side of the 5e starter sets? Wouldn’t that just divide and confuse their most crucial demographic, new players?

Those are the kinds of sets that are designed to be purchased by folks who know nothing of DnD, often as a gift for kids.

 

[Clint_L]

I thought the Random House thing was primarily about the novels?

The novels basically sustained TSR after RPG sales tanked. Though they may have ultimately contributed to the issue of surviving on book advances, the problem that was particularly flagged by WotC's analysis was the money being lost on the RPG side of the business, particularly through publishing ton of unprofitable material for settings like Dark Sun.

According to WotC's analysis of TSR's data, not only were many of these book unprofitable, they could never have been profitable. They were a doomed venture that was designed to kick the can rather than get TSR out of the hole. Which...kind of worked, in the sense of keeping the company alive long enough to be acquired by WotC.

 

[mamba]

Better would have been to say "there's no market for Madden '25, when we just sold them Madden '24," which is clearly not true.

but that is because it is a sports game and the Football fans want the team changes reflected in game, not because the gameplay and technology are so much better.

You could not keep that schedule with core rules for any TTRPG and you cannot really do so with most games either, there is no Diablo 24 or Civilization 24

 

[Morrus]

This phrase . . . "walled garden" . . . has come up a few times recently in reference to D&D Beyond, and the actual game itself too.

D&D, the tabletop game, is not a "walled garden". It's a game with an open license for other companies and fans to produce content compatible with the game! Sure, WotC tried to squish that last year, but they didn't manage too.

D&D Beyond is not really a "walled garden" either . . . books you purchase on DDB can only be used on DDB, but they are available from a number of other online retailers and online suites like Fantasy Grounds also.

I think that it's going to become effectively a wall garden. Sure other outlets will be available, but they'll b elf no consequence--if it doesn't work on DDB the customer base won't be interested.

So yes, you're right it's not a walled garden in technical or legal sense, but it is becoming one in a 'for all practicality that actually matters' sense.

And it's not really viable for small companies to match a $160M platform.