D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook Reveal: Shape of "New Druid"

Druid video today. Where will wildshape land?

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We saw three druids in the playtest, and each was meaningfully different. The most recent look at the class was in PT8 (UA Playtest document 8); with the Moon Druid in PT8, and Land Druid and Sea Druid in PT6, with the Stars Druid in Tasha's. What will change? What will be revealed? Will it be feasible to pick an combat animal shape and stick with it through 20 levels? Let's find out!

OVERVIEW

• "there is a ton of new in the druid": but it was all in the playtest materials. Very little to see here. "the final version has elements people didn't get to see" in the playtest, however everything they discuss was in the playtest documents.
• Primal order choice at level 1: Warden or Magician. Warden gives proficiency in Medium armor and martial weapons; Magician gives cantrip and nature checks (and so =PT8). Magician incentivizes not dumping Intelligence.
• no mention of metal armor; presumably any restriction is now gone.
• Druidic includes speak with animals prepared.
• Wildshape (as in PT8): as a bonus action; wild companion option from Tasha's for a familiar; you can speak; spellslot for another wildshift at 5.
• NO MENTION OF BEAST FORMS IN THE PHB.
• At level 7, Elemental Fury choice not determined by level 1 choice; you can mix-and-match. (would you want to?) Improved at level 15 -- extra range option works at range while flying, if you want.
• new cantrips: Starry Wisp (ranged spell attack in PT8) and Elementalism (PT6).

Overall, this is pretty disappointing in terms of a preview for people who have been invested in the playtest. No discussion of the beast forms in the PHB, no mention of distinctive Druid features (metal armor, though the silence is probably revelatory) or adjustements to canonical spells (any adjustments to Reincarnate so it might actually see play?).

Narrator: His questions would not be answered.

SUBCLASSES
Land

• Almost all as in PT6. This is "all about your spellcasting".
• you choose your land type every long rest. Arid, Polar, Temperate, Tropical (as in PT6).
• use wildshape at 3 to create "eruption of nature magic" (harms and heals). Expanded at 14 to include resitances.
• Two damage resistances at 10 (with flexibility: poison plus one determined by land type

Sea

• wanted to "make sure we don't have the Aquaman problem".
• NEW: Water breathing replaces Sleet storm on the subclass spell list.

Moon

• Almost everything exactly as in PT8: AC is "more reliable"; gain in temporary hit points instead of just taking over the creature's hit points. (a nerf, but a needed one). (Crawford ties it to abilities that activate when you get zero hp;
• NEW: subclass spell list given (it is different from PT8):
  • 3: cure wounds, moon beam, starry wisp (unchanged)
  • 5: conjure animals (replacing Vampiric touch)
  • 7: fount of Moonlight (new spell, as in PT8)
  • 9: mass cure wounds (replacing Dawn).

Stars

• like Tasha's, but starting now at level 3. Enhanced by core class, but no specific changes made.

 

[Undrave]

Templates where tried in the playtest and had support.

But ultimately more people voted for keeping the individual animal forms.

Might of been 60%/40%.

And they just gave up instead of making the templates better.

...and that was with poorly designed templates. Had the initial offering been stronger, it could have passed; but the feedback system inadequately distinguished "having templates at all" from "having templates that offer no individuation or decision points". (IMO)

I bet they would have been more popular if they had went with purposes in mind like I've suggested.

 

[mellored]

...and that was with poorly designed templates. Had the initial offering been stronger, it could have passed; but the feedback system inadequately distinguished "having templates at all" from "having templates that offer no individuation or decision points". (IMO)

IMO.
The issue with templates is that they all had a 40' land speed and eventually a climb speed.

And that was really weird when turning into an shark.

And once you start adding except after exception, you might as well just use stat blocks.

There's just too much variety in animals to make a template.

 

[Stalker0]

While slightly less powerful level's 2-4, it scales much better throughout the Druid's career.

Also lets brass tax this, Moon Druid level 2 right now is certified BROKEN, is there anything even close to their level of power at that level?

We can debate lvls 3 and 4, but a nerf at lvl 2 was ESSENTIAL.

 

[Weiley31]

Let me rephrase that.

BBEG with 500 HP
Turns into a cat, with 5 HP
Gets hit with a disintegrate, for 100 damage.
"If this damage reduces the target to 0 hit points, it is disintegrate".

Does the BBEG disintegrate or not?

Well, Half Orcs are notoriously hard to kill.

Also:

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium

Confirmed that Relentless Endurance NIXES the Disintegration at zero HP. (Specific Spell section)

 

[Chaosmancer]

I want that to be true -- I think if a player wants, they should be able always to change into the same creature (wolf, bear), and its abilities scale meaningfully over 20 levels. Not all will want that, but equally not all want to become Dire Velociraptors or whatever.

I agree with this, and there are a few easy ways to do so, even if it has to be homebrew. Honestly, this version of wildshape is the closest to that ideal, all you really need to do is make the beast attacks spell attacks based on wisdom, and you are golden. Maybe add a few damage dice here and there.

In Treantmonk's video yesterday, he said (not meaning this to be a reveal, I think) that upper level Druids will need to go to the Monster Manual. I hope that's not the case.

I mean... it is kind of obvious that they will from how the baseline is structured. There aren't going to be CR 9 beasts in the PHB, but the moon druid is going to have access to that.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I agree with this, and there are a few easy ways to do so, even if it has to be homebrew. Honestly, this version of wildshape is the closest to that ideal, all you really need to do is make the beast attacks spell attacks based on wisdom, and you are golden. Maybe add a few damage dice here and there

Yup -- it should be straightforward, and not take up much space (each +1 CR gives +1 AC, +1dX damage, +1 Y hit points, and maybe +Z something else; attacks may use Wisdom for to hit and damage bonus).

I'd like it not to have to be homebrewed.

 

[CapnZapp]

And with templates you can offer thematic bespoke ones for certain subclasses.

Sorry - you did mention the word template in the post I replied to, but I didn't catch you were discussing it in this context.

Templates aren't popular. People want shape into actual monsters, with specific stat blocks.

My replies were towards the idea I thought you were entertaining - doing the work for players, grouping monsters (actual MM entries) by wild shape utility.

Not by irrelevant in game concerns. Whether a combat firm is ursine (bear) or lupine (wolf) doesn't matter.

What matters is the devs having an answer to: at which level us it appropriate for the druid to accomplish this?

(A bird has trivial stats but considerable scout potential; despite not even being CR 1/8 it perhaps shouldn't be made available at level 1?)

 

[CapnZapp]

Templates where tried in the playtest and had support.

But ultimately more people voted for keeping the individual animal forms.

Might of been 60%/40%.

As I just explained, I wasn't necessarily thinking about templates.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Sorry - you did mention the word template in the post I replied to, but I didn't catch you were discussing it in this context.

Templates aren't popular. People want shape into actual monsters, with specific stat blocks.

My replies were towards the idea I thought you were entertaining - doing the work for players, grouping monsters (actual MM entries) by wild shape utility.

Not by irrelevant in game concerns. Whether a combat firm is ursine (bear) or lupine (wolf) doesn't matter.

What matters is the devs having an answer to: at which level us it appropriate for the druid to accomplish this?

(A bird has trivial stats but considerable scout potential; despite not even being CR 1/8 it perhaps shouldn't be made available at level 1?)

The problem is then we're balancing monsters around one class ability, which is just bad design. CR is more or less a shot in the dark anyways. By keeping them stat blocks, MM scourers will continue to look for the list of broken CR creatures then whine when they can't turn into them. The templates needed tweaking, but were hands down the right call.

The druid is still a full caster. Animal forms could have been largely illusion and they would have been balanced.

 

[mellored]

Well, Half Orcs are notoriously hard to kill.

Also:

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium

Confirmed that Relentless Endurance NIXES the Disintegration at zero HP. (Specific Spell section)

What about a non-half orc?

500 normal HP
5 cat HP
Disintegrate.

Either way, a lot harder to rule than.
500HP + 5 THP cat.