D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook Reveal: Shape of "New Druid"

Druid video today. Where will wildshape land?

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We saw three druids in the playtest, and each was meaningfully different. The most recent look at the class was in PT8 (UA Playtest document 8); with the Moon Druid in PT8, and Land Druid and Sea Druid in PT6, with the Stars Druid in Tasha's. What will change? What will be revealed? Will it be feasible to pick an combat animal shape and stick with it through 20 levels? Let's find out!

OVERVIEW

• "there is a ton of new in the druid": but it was all in the playtest materials. Very little to see here. "the final version has elements people didn't get to see" in the playtest, however everything they discuss was in the playtest documents.
• Primal order choice at level 1: Warden or Magician. Warden gives proficiency in Medium armor and martial weapons; Magician gives cantrip and nature checks (and so =PT8). Magician incentivizes not dumping Intelligence.
• no mention of metal armor; presumably any restriction is now gone.
• Druidic includes speak with animals prepared.
• Wildshape (as in PT8): as a bonus action; wild companion option from Tasha's for a familiar; you can speak; spellslot for another wildshift at 5.
• NO MENTION OF BEAST FORMS IN THE PHB.
• At level 7, Elemental Fury choice not determined by level 1 choice; you can mix-and-match. (would you want to?) Improved at level 15 -- extra range option works at range while flying, if you want.
• new cantrips: Starry Wisp (ranged spell attack in PT8) and Elementalism (PT6).

Overall, this is pretty disappointing in terms of a preview for people who have been invested in the playtest. No discussion of the beast forms in the PHB, no mention of distinctive Druid features (metal armor, though the silence is probably revelatory) or adjustements to canonical spells (any adjustments to Reincarnate so it might actually see play?).

Narrator: His questions would not be answered.

SUBCLASSES
Land

• Almost all as in PT6. This is "all about your spellcasting".
• you choose your land type every long rest. Arid, Polar, Temperate, Tropical (as in PT6).
• use wildshape at 3 to create "eruption of nature magic" (harms and heals). Expanded at 14 to include resitances.
• Two damage resistances at 10 (with flexibility: poison plus one determined by land type

Sea

• wanted to "make sure we don't have the Aquaman problem".
• NEW: Water breathing replaces Sleet storm on the subclass spell list.

Moon

• Almost everything exactly as in PT8: AC is "more reliable"; gain in temporary hit points instead of just taking over the creature's hit points. (a nerf, but a needed one). (Crawford ties it to abilities that activate when you get zero hp;
• NEW: subclass spell list given (it is different from PT8):
  • 3: cure wounds, moon beam, starry wisp (unchanged)
  • 5: conjure animals (replacing Vampiric touch)
  • 7: fount of Moonlight (new spell, as in PT8)
  • 9: mass cure wounds (replacing Dawn).

Stars

• like Tasha's, but starting now at level 3. Enhanced by core class, but no specific changes made.

 

[Undrave]

Sorry - you did mention the word template in the post I replied to, but I didn't catch you were discussing it in this context.

Templates aren't popular. People want shape into actual monsters, with specific stat blocks.

My replies were towards the idea I thought you were entertaining - doing the work for players, grouping monsters (actual MM entries) by wild shape utility.

Not by irrelevant in game concerns. Whether a combat firm is ursine (bear) or lupine (wolf) doesn't matter.

What matters is the devs having an answer to: at which level us it appropriate for the druid to accomplish this?

(A bird has trivial stats but considerable scout potential; despite not even being CR 1/8 it perhaps shouldn't be made available at level 1?)

Templates means you don't have to look through multiple books and pages to find the perfect form. It also means you don't have to consider the Druid when making new monsters to fight.

A base template with some stats calculation, and then a series of features you can add to it based on your Druid level would make it much easier. Like, a level 1 Druid can turn into a cat for scouting, but at later level they can pick a trait to make that wild shape even smaller and now they can turn into a mouse and later a spider! You could have a travel form that's a horse and then later add a trait to make it a flying creature, or swimming one.

I don't believe people care to have the exact numbers of a bear or a wolf from the MM. What's the AC of a bear? I don't know and I don't really care, but I imagine it's tougher than my druid and that's really what people want in a transformation: to be good at something your druid isn't. If I turn into a cat to infiltrate a castle I care about my Stealth bonus, not the exact damage my claws would make, ya know?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Yup -- it should be straightforward, and not take up much space (each +1 CR gives +1 AC, +1dX damage, +1 Y hit points, and maybe +Z something else; attacks may use Wisdom for to hit and damage bonus).

I'd like it not to have to be homebrewed.

That would actually not work at all with how the current version of Wildshape works.

Currently, wildshape gives +level temp hp to the Druid, and wildshape does not drop until the druid hits 0 Hp. Moon druid gets levelx3. Currently the AC calculation is either the statblock's AC, or 13+wis mod, for all statblocks.

These allow the shape's defenses to change with the Druid's level and abilities. Unless the Beast statblock is sitting at a 17 or 18 AC, which is going to be very unusual, the Druid's 13+wis is going to be superior AC for all beasts (maybe High CR beasts will be more and can be calculated in at an appropriate level) And whether the form is a sparrow with 1 hp or a mammoth with 60, their temp hp and total hp will remain the same. Adding to that for each CR just starts making all of the forms significantly stronger (the difference between having a CR 1 and a CR 6 potential form would raise the Druid from an 18 AC to a 23 in all beast forms)

The only tricky thing is going to be damage. If a wolf is doing 2d4+2 and you want to use that form instead of a CR 6 Mammoth that hits for 4d8+7 and has a potential bonus action attack... well, that is going to be trickier to balance. You could have a standardized average damage you want all forms to be able to do, but then you also have to consider outliers and if special abilities affect that.

 

[UVAtom]

I wish they’d picked a name other than “magician.” That just sounds like someone pulling rabbits out of hats. Never heard that term remotely connected to druids or nature priests or what have you.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I wish they’d picked a name other than “magician.” That just sounds like someone pulling rabbits out of hats. Never heard that term remotely connected to druids or nature priests or what have you.

But a Druid can pull rabbits out of their hats, with at least one of their summoning spells or Find Familiar or something.

 

[Clint_L]

Templates means you don't have to look through multiple books and pages to find the perfect form. It also means you don't have to consider the Druid when making new monsters to fight.

A base template with some stats calculation, and then a series of features you can add to it based on your Druid level would make it much easier. Like, a level 1 Druid can turn into a cat for scouting, but at later level they can pick a trait to make that wild shape even smaller and now they can turn into a mouse and later a spider! You could have a travel form that's a horse and then later add a trait to make it a flying creature, or swimming one.

I don't believe people care to have the exact numbers of a bear or a wolf from the MM. What's the AC of a bear? I don't know and I don't really care, but I imagine it's tougher than my druid and that's really what people want in a transformation: to be good at something your druid isn't. If I turn into a cat to infiltrate a castle I care about my Stealth bonus, not the exact damage my claws would make, ya know?

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

Templates do not fit the class fantasy of druid for a lot of people. It's not about what is more convenient or what is "better," it's about being able to shapeshift into a specific animal, not into a generic bundle of stats that you can call an animal if you want.

I ran into this at school when Tasha's reimagined the Beastmaster ranger. My students absolutely rejected the "beast of the land, sea, air" concept. They wanted their character to have a specific beast companion. Their version of Trinket, basically.

It's a fantasy roleplaying game. The math doesn't matter if the proposal doesn't match the class fantasy.

 

[Azzy]

Final Fantasy steals from D&D, D&D steals from Final Fantasy - the circle of life continues.

In this case, though, I believe that FF stole it from the Toriumi from Hayao Miyazaki's Nausicaä of the Valley of Wind.

 

[Chaosmancer]

In this case, though, I believe that FF stole it from the Toriumi from Hayao Miyazaki's Nausicaä of the Valley of Wind.

That manga is one of the greatest stories ever told. I really need to get myself a copy of it for my collection.

 

[Azzy]

That manga is one of the greatest stories ever told. I really need to get myself a copy of it for my collection.

Agreed. I treated myself to this set during Covid. It's a great set.

 

[CapnZapp]

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

Templates do not fit the class fantasy of druid for a lot of people. It's not about what is more convenient or what is "better," it's about being able to shapeshift into a specific animal, not into a generic bundle of stats that you can call an animal if you want.


It's a fantasy roleplaying game. The math doesn't matter if the proposal doesn't match the class fantasy.

As I understand it, the question is settled, at least for the 2024 PHB, which is what we're discussing.

 

[CapnZapp]

Biggest issue is they had split them into 'land/sea/air' instead of addressing the ACTUALY REASONS people use wild shape. What they needed is a separation based on purposes: Scouting (or infiltration), Travel, Tanking (with Moon druids getting a 'Predator' template for battle).

Which is what most people did anyway.

This is the post I initially quoted.

What I was interested in has nothing to do with templates.

Instead, it has to do with categorization.

Undrave is absolutely right that separating animals depending on where you find them makes no sense.

The only relevant parameter for play is how you use them.

Group them into categories such as:
Scouting or infiltration
Travel
Tanking
Attacking

Note I have removed references to templates. I did not have templates in mind anyway.

It appears WotC lost a good opportunity here: if the PHB listed recommendations from the MM into these categories new players would be helped into finding suitable forms without having to scour the entire MM. Especially conservative DMs could restrict wild shaping to these lists only.