D&D (2024) I just got a 2024 PHB From Gen Con. AMA!

[Daztur]

The requirement it has to understand you is gone!

Looks like 5.5e is inching bit by bit back towards 4e-style mechanics.

 

[pukunui]

Looks like 5.5e is inching bit by bit back towards 4e-style mechanics.

The initial 2014 rules employed linguistic gymnastics (aka "natural language") as a deliberate attempt to move away from 4e's keyword/shorthand-laden approach (and mask any rules elements carried over from that edition) in order to appease the grognards who didn't like 4e.

Now that 5e is being played by a whole lot of people for whom it is their first (and only) edition of D&D, I guess the devs feel it's safe to bring back elements of 4e that they liked or that worked well from a UX perspective (or whatever).

 

[Daztur]

The initial 2014 rules employed linguistic gymnastics (aka "natural language") as a deliberate attempt to move away from 4e's keyword/shorthand-laden approach (and mask any rules elements carried over from that edition) in order to appease the grognards who didn't like 4e.

Now that 5e is being played by a whole lot of people for whom it is their first (and only) edition of D&D, I guess the devs feel it's safe to bring back elements of 4e that they liked or that worked well from a UX perspective (or whatever).

Yup, and I'm a bit surprised that I haven't seen more people noticing this especially on forums with a lot of grognards. Maybe they're just doing it slowly enough since more recent splatbooks have been inching away from the more "natural language" approach for a long time now. It's not a big change in how games will go down, but it does indicate some pretty fundamental changes in RPG philosophy that I think will guide how 5.5e develops in the future. If this goes over well with the 5e newbies then I could really see 6e bringing back even more 4e-isms. I do see a lot more complaining about "natural language" etc. than support for it on Reddit (which seems to skew a lot less grognard than here).

Personally this is probably my biggest single sacred cow in D&D so I don't like WotC cutting slices off of it, but I'm probably in the minority on this point these days. My single biggest annoyance with 4e was all of the keywords and such and I wonder how many people who disliked 4e disliked it for that reason vs. other reason or if any of the old 4e edition wars are at all relevant anymore.

 

[Parmandur]

The initial 2014 rules employed linguistic gymnastics (aka "natural language") as a deliberate attempt to move away from 4e's keyword/shorthand-laden approach (and mask any rules elements carried over from that edition) in order to appease the grognards who didn't like 4e.

Now that 5e is being played by a whole lot of people for whom it is their first (and only) edition of D&D, I guess the devs feel it's safe to bring back elements of 4e that they liked or that worked well from a UX perspective (or whatever).

Feels like they are trying for a middle ground: more exacting clarity without going full 4E.

 

[Chaosmancer]

OK but the original Urchin background was very much focused on the former. The description reads "You grew up on the streets alone, orphaned, and poor. You had no one to watch over you or to provide for you, so you learned to provide for yourself ..."

If WotC had wanted to expand the background to be more inclusive of other types of homeless people, why did they go with this description for Wayfarer? "You grew up on the streets surrounded by similarly ill-fated castoffs, a few of them friends and a few of them rivals. You slept where you could and did odd jobs for food. At times, when the hunger became unbearable, you resorted to theft. Still, you never lost your pride and never abandoned hope. Fate is not yet finished with you."

A "wayfarer" is a traveler. Someone who lives their life on the road, moving from one place to the next, never settling down anywhere. They're not necessarily homeless, and they don't live on the streets in a single community. They might sleep rough in the wilderness or they might sleep at inns or in people's barns or whatever. They may have come from a wealthy upbringing but their wanderlust got the better of them.

"Wayfarer" =/= "Orphaned street urchin", despite what WotC might want us to think.

If anything, "Wayfarer" should have been the new name for the Outlander background. That would have made a lot more sense. Instead, they got rid of the Outlander and gave the Urchin a nonsensical new name.

Okay, there are two things here that you put as one thing.

The old description for urchin says "You grew up on the streets alone, orphaned, and poor. You had no one to watch over you or to provide for you, so you learned to provide for yourself ..." and now it says "You grew up on the streets surrounded by similarly ill-fated castoffs, a few of them friends and a few of them rivals. You slept where you could and did odd jobs for food. At times, when the hunger became unbearable, you resorted to theft. Still, you never lost your pride and never abandoned hope. Fate is not yet finished with you."

Note that this IS more inclusive. You didn't grow up alone and orphaned, you could have, but you were surrounded by other cast-offs, you slept where you could, which might not have always been the street. You could have had someone watch over and provide for you. This is a lot more inclusive of a lot more stories than urchin was.

And, if you stop and read the description... well, it ALSO covers that sort of traveler you are talking about. Sleeping where you could is exactly like "They might sleep rough in the wilderness or they might sleep at inns or in people's barns or whatever" Coming from a wealthy upbringing is possible, but if you are wandering around enough, you get the archetype of the wealthy person who leaves behind their wealth to live on the road as a common person, someone who grows a long scraggly beard and "At times, when the hunger became unbearable, you resorted to theft. "

Additionally, there is a synonym at play here. A synonym for Wayfarer is Vagrant. I think you would have been far happier with Vagrant as the background title for this background, but since I suspect this is meant to also cover migrant workers, refugees, circus performers, and more I'm fine with the more polite and positive sounding Wayfarer. Then those who make their lives out in nature get Guide or Hermit, while those who go a more criminal route get Criminal and Charlatan. It is a nice little half-way point between those four.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Yup, and I'm a bit surprised that I haven't seen more people noticing this especially on forums with a lot of grognards. Maybe they're just doing it slowly enough since more recent splatbooks have been inching away from the more "natural language" approach for a long time now. It's not a big change in how games will go down, but it does indicate some pretty fundamental changes in RPG philosophy that I think will guide how 5.5e develops in the future. If this goes over well with the 5e newbies then I could really see 6e bringing back even more 4e-isms.

if this leads to a 6e that is more based on 4e but with the better parts of 2e and 5e in it I will take back everything bad I have said abiut this edition/mid edition change.

 

[Remathilis]

if this leads to a 6e that is more based on 4e but with the better parts of 2e and 5e in it I will take back everything bad I have said abiut this edition/mid edition change.

I kinda feel the new books are pushing more 4e derived ideas but isn't committing the cardinal sin of changing the power structure like Adeu did. Trying to find a balance between the classic system of abilities and spells and 4e powers.

 

[GarrettKP]

Got my copy last night thanks to Gen Con friends. Gorgeous book.

 

[FrogReaver]

That's certainly what I would do. I was just pointing out that the 2024 rules specifically state that characters risk being blinded "even on most moonlit nights".

Ah I missed that part.

 

[mellored]

I kinda feel the new books are pushing more 4e derived ideas but isn't committing the cardinal sin of changing the power structure like Adeu did. Trying to find a balance between the classic system of abilities and spells and 4e powers.

They are also tightening bounded accuracy (i.e. removing Athletics from grapple), which moves further away from 4e's inflated numbers.