AI is stealing writers’ words and jobs…

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So, is all data scrapping unethical to you or just when it's used this for this manner?


The question of the ethicality of the practice depends on how you weigh the discomfort inflicted to artists (number of artists times their prejudice) compared to the increase in comfort of everyone else (those who had never considered hiring an artists and who acquire the capability to create average art -- I'd have written below average, but AuraFlow and Flux happened in the meantime -- at no cost, and those who could hire artists and are able to save on this cost, times their respective benefit). Of course, the discomfort experimented by any artist, individually, is superior the individual benefit of a person being able to generate an image of his favorite elf barbarian for his character sheet instead of letting the rectangle free. But there are few profesionnal artists compared to the masses of non-artists, and the needs of the many often outweigh the need of the few. So how you weigh those value will certainly lead each of us to a solution, potentially radically different.

I don't think there is a single answer to the ethicality of it (everyone will weigh things differently), but I also feel that calling for laws is a debate of the past. Unlike a debate on hyperspace travel regulations (is it ethical to allow travel at warp 8?) or a new immortality drug that would have been invented just yesterday, laws have already been passed to regulate data scrapping in some countries, in response to the rise of AI technologies. So saying they are not ethical is no longer a theoretical debate, of being faced with outdated laws that didn't take an evolution into account, it's quite frankly saying "are those nations doing it wrong?". It's like discussing the ethicality of, you know, camping, or letting free access to, you know, gardening implements instead of given them only to lawn enforcement officers. It is no longer solely an ethical topic, but it has become, with the advance of laws in many places, a political topic. Reading the Radiant Citadel thread, I was confronted to many people saying "look at that silly system, they provide basic welfare to any resident, paid by taxes, that's a stupid unbelievable commie utopia", despite the evidence of basic public services provided wouldn't be out of place in Western Europe. This board tries to avoid politics, so let's avoid devolving into that.

So I'd say "of course it ethical as long as we collectively consider that the benefits outweigh the cost, as demonstrated by the fact that countries actually have made this decision and allowed it into laws, sometimes with restrictions." I don't see how we could say anything else without saying "the people of country X are doing it wrong".



You cite that underpaid workers are being taken advantage of by do the data scraping/training. Those same workers would more than likely have been taken advantage by some other company no matter the case. Folks ins sweat shops are still going to be working in sweat shops making slave wages no matter what you buy or use. This all feeds into the "current system is bad" aspect that you didn't want to be brushed with.

The existence of larger problem shouldn't prompt us to do nothing about smaller wrongs if we decided collectively there were wrongs. We got rid of smallpox, and we didn't just say "people will die anyway, why bother?"
 
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The existence of larger problem shouldn't prompt us to do nothing about smaller wrongs if we decided collectively there were wrongs. We got rid of smallpox, and we didn't just say "people will die anyway, why bother?"
Collectively we as a society have decided that workers working in sweatshops for slave wages is okay, sure we get outraged when it makes the news but then we just go right back to not caring.
 


No we haven't. Find me the sweat shop or people working for 'slave wages' in Canada, and then call the cops.
EDIT: They may not be working for what we would call slave wages but sweatshops still exist in first world countries. Just not large scale like in other countries.




"There is also the existence of sweatshops in Montreal. There are a lot of immigrants working in the textile industry at rates and at conditions that are not necessarily the most ideal conditions," she says.


 
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Maybe i should clarify what i mean by it being "okay". We're okay with it until we hear about it then for a short time we're outraged then we move on.

So, society (as if there is one definition) is or isnt OK with slave wages and sweatshops?

The last incident I can remember making the news, was when it was found a value line of clothing (aka cheap as hell) but Canadian owned, was using labour in India or something that was found to be in unsafe working conditions.

That company got blasted for it, and promised to make changes.

What else do you expect of 'society'? Should I be walking the streets looking for offenders? Should I be knocking on doors and checking working conditions?

Or, do we expect our Government, Legal, and Policing institutions to do their damn jobs?
 

So, society (as if there is one definition) is or isnt OK with slave wages and sweatshops?

The last incident I can remember making the news, was when it was found a value line of clothing (aka cheap as hell) but Canadian owned, was using labour in India or something that was found to be in unsafe working conditions.

That company got blasted for it, and promised to make changes.
Did they? Like i said we only get mad about it when we find out about it. But with regards to third world countries, we know it happens, we're outraged whenever it is brought up or something catastrophic happens like when the Rana Plaza garment factory collapsed. Yes it lead to new agreements that are enforced but then we moved on hoping that would be enough.

This honestly should have it's own topic but i think it would head into politics.
 

Yes it lead to new agreements that are enforced but then we moved on hoping that would be enough.

So at a quick look, yes. Things were improved.

Now, I'm not here to fix Globalization, but the question remains.

Does 'Society' accept slave wages, and sweat shops? I think if you are talking about the West? No. We dont.

Do I walk around considering the ill's of the world on a daily basis? 24/7?

No. I have people (my Wife, Son, myself) to support, and I dont have the luxury of going out and protesting and somehow changing the business operations of the world.
 

Does 'Society' accept slave wages, and sweat shops?
Yes, we do.

Look what happens when the prices in the shops go up even a little. People freak out.

Prices are as low as they are because of slave wages and sweatshops...and literal slave labor in other parts of the world. People want low prices. So we accept slave wages, sweatshops, and literal slave labor all while pretending it either doesn't exist or we're opposed to it.
Do I walk around considering the ill's of the world on a daily basis? 24/7?

No. I have people (my Wife, Son, myself) to support, and I dont have the luxury of going out and protesting and somehow changing the business operations of the world.
Exactly. People are busy living their lives. The don't have time to think about these things and generally don't want to even if they did have the time. We have the time to make dozens of posts on here every day, read and think about our little fantasy worlds and characters and stories...but not the time to write a letter or protest business practices.

We accept sweatshops and slave wages and slave labor.

But we also desperately wish we didn't.

And yet we all do.

Every single day.
 

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