D&D (2024) Are single class martials still going to be viable in 2024?

[EzekielRaiden]

The fact that you think pure Martials are weak is showing that you don’t really understand this.

I mean, they are relative to spellcasters of equivalent optimization unless the DM is playing favorites.

 

[ECMO3]

You are slowing down the attacks. Especially in a game where people barely get too level 12.

No you are speeding it up.

A Monk with a F/R dip or a F/R with a Monk dip gets MORE attacks at EVERY level except 5 and they have the same number at level 5.

A Paladin-Warlock or Fighter-Warlock gets the same number of attacks at every level except 5.

In a game that goes to 10 level 5 is the only level you are getting less attacks

And that's the thing If you're playing in a high optimization game what you're trying to abuse multclassing, The single class characters are hitting their tiered powers faster than you and have more resources to boost their power.

Multicasting with a primary weapon user before level 6 is a trap unless you're using some specialized cheese build.

Explain to me how it is a trap at level 2, 3 or 4 with the new rules.

Extra attack is too powerful to delay because that time around level 5 is when DMs can go pull out monsters that also have similarly strong Tier 2 abilities.

Extra attack does not exist for 2nd, 3rd or 4th level Characters.

Further more with Nick any Monk, Ranger or Fighter who uses lihgt weapons can get that boost in power at level 2 now.

It is only an issue AT level 5. Not before, not after.

Finally this is an arguement for a Warlock dip with Fighter or Paladin, but even here the True Strike cantrip mitigates this. It allows an extra 1d6, so even at level 5 this is not as big a deal as it would be.

A dual-wheeler can do wield and eventually get dual there and get what they would have got with the monk dip without slowing their class progression

With nick you can both dual wield and make a 2nd attack using your action and make a 3rd attack using martial arts.

This is why multiclassing is so much more powerful, Two Weapon fighting no longer competes with martial arts. With nick they both give you an extra attack.

A single class fighter or single class Monk will not catch up eventually, they will be behind at every level.

You get a powerful level 2 but you eventually get surpassed by the single class until the singer class plateaus which is usually in the teens.

When do you get passed by a single classed fighter? You are way better at level 2-4, substantially better at level 6-10 and with the increased martial arts damage pretty darn close at level 5 even without extra attack.

 

[Charlaquin]

It has, but I think the difference between non-dipped and dipped now is greater.

I don’t think so. They fixed a lot of previously strong dips, and introduced some new ones. Overall probably a wash.

 

[mellored]

On a Paladin I think you are going to always want 1 Warlock level.

Nope.

You want magic imitate (druid) and then take Shillelagh with Cha.

Attack with Cha, and scaling weapon damage.

On a Fighter you are going to want 1 Warlock level to let you attack with Charisma or 1 Monk level to make bonus action unarmed strikes.

I don't see any benefit of the fighter using Cha over Str.

And you need Str to use Heavy weapons, even with Hexblade.

So just the regular polarm master + great weapon master will be more damage. Probably the most in the game.

On a Monk you are going to want a level of Fighter or Ranger for Nick.

Not sure that's worth the loss of a focus point.

Start with 17 Dex and pick it up as a feat.

On a Ranger you are going to want 1 Monk level for bonus action unarmed strikes.

That's melee only, and rangers have a use for their bonus action with hunters mark.

But probably better than Dual Wielder, especially if you get your Wis up too.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

When do you get passed by a single classed fighter? You are way better at level 2-4, substantially better at level 6-10 and with the increased martial arts damage pretty darn close at level 5 even without extra attack.

Where does it say that martial arts dice scale with character level?

 

[ECMO3]

I disagree. I mean, it's not like Hexblade wasn't a thing in 5.0, so that part is already unchanged, and the bonus action punch from Monk really isn't that good if you aren't, y'know, gaining more Monk levels. You have inflated the value of these things in my opinion.

Hexblade only applied to one weapon, which was a substantial limitation in play. The new POB applies to all weapons.

The extra attack from a Monk is an entire other attack. Does 1d6 +strength or dex and can be used without even using the attack action.

For reasons that have nothing to do with the things you're complaining about.

I am not complaining. I think this is awesome.

Except most "significant subclass abilities" have been shifted to 3rd level? I have no idea what your complaint even is here.

Ok it is not a complaint, I love it.

A dip before required more levels to get really good things except for Cleric dips that could get heavy Armor at level 1.

There was nothing the equivalent of weapon masteries or martial arts on a 1-level dip.

Only "martial"-type characters get weapon masteries. The new Martial Arts is a d6 bonus action. You could already get that by having a hand axe, scimitar, or short sword in your off hand.

You can get BOTH of those at level 2 now. You get the benefits of two-weapon fighting with a hand axe and short sword AND you get the benefits of martial arts because they do not compete for your bonus action. You get the other mastery on top of all that.

Using the Monk as an example -
I can play a single class Monk and get one attack action with a light martial weapon and then get one martial arts attack as a bonus action.

Now with a 1-level Fighter dip and mastery I can get one attack action and a mastery on the hit for whatever the hand axe is and one light attack with the short sword as part of that action and a martial arts bonus action attack

The only people who can make use of Nick are Barbarians, Fighters, Paladins, Rangers, and Rogues. In other words...that's a power up specifically to martial characters. It's not something you even need to dip for.

Getting a martial arts attack in addition to a nick attack is a power up for those martial classes.

Getting a nick attack in addition to a martial arts attack is a power up for a Monk.

 

[ECMO3]

Not sure that's worth the loss of a focus point.

It is an extra attack every single round at every single level except 5 and the same number of attacks at level 5.

I don't see any benefit of the fighter using Cha over Str.

And you need Str to use Heavy weapons, even with Hexblade.

So just the regular polarm master + great weapon master will be more damage. Probably the most in the game.

I think Pact of the Blade allows you to use Charisma with any weapon.

Martial Arts starts as a 1d6 so martial arts with a Pole Arm is going to do more damage than PAM by itself without requiring a feat and getting it at level 2. Going with a 2d6 weapon+martial arts will do substantially more damage than PAM alone and the best part is you are tied to Pole Arms specifically. You can do this with any magic weapon you find.

Start with 17 Dex and pick it up as a feat.

2 levels later and giving up another feat for it.

You do have a point about Rangers who are going ranged. Especially since I have not seen a table with the mastery properties of the ranged weapons yet.

 

[Minigiant]

No you are speeding it up.

A Monk with a F/R dip or a F/R with a Monk dip gets MORE attacks at EVERY level except 5 and they have the same number at level 5.

A Paladin-Warlock or Fighter-Warlock gets the same number of attacks at every level except 5.

In a game that goes to 10 level 5 is the only level you are getting less attacks

You are stuck on the number of attacks.
You are forgetting the quality of the attacks.

An unarmed strike unless you are an unarmed build is not going to stack with your normal weapon attack.

Keyword Weapon.

There are magic weapons, feats, and masteries a weapon gets.

It's a 1d6+Mod punch that never upgrades because you don't progress in monk and you delay your feats.

Explain to me how it is a trap at level 2, 3 or 4 with the new rules

My PC gets a magic weapon.
My PC gets a feat that boosts weapon
My PC applies a Mastery to a weapon.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

If you are a fighter you are also delaying, action surge and tactical warrior, your subclass, your feat/ Ability score increase.

None of these level 2 to 4 abilities seem worth giving up for a Warlock or Monk level.

 

[Scribe]

Because there is no downside to it and it makes them better at the social pillar. The bigger question is why wouldn't they if they can so easily?

Because who cares about the social pillar, thats why its a party based game, let a class that should do it, do it.