D&D (2024) Are single class martials still going to be viable in 2024?

[Kinematics]

For Fighter with a 1 level dip in Monk, it's a great boost for up to Fighter level 4 (character levels 2-5), but collapses after that. If you're going for two-weapon fighting, picking up Dual Wielder gets you the same benefit as the Monk dip, and it ends up being a wash, or better for the single-class Fighter after that. (If you don't get the DW feat, the Monk dip is strongly ahead.) And if you go to heavy weapons, you can't use them and the Martial Arts offhand attack at the same time. Putting aside juggling shenanigans, a greatsword build with GWM outclasses the dual wield build.

Still, there are cases where I could see doing it. In a recent D&D game, it took us a year of play to get to level 4. That's a huge amount of time where I could have boosted my damage by like 50% with a dip. But if the game moves a lot faster, you'll be hitting levels where it's more a hindrance than a help. And losing the bonus Monk damage because you got a sparkly magic longsword which doesn't let you use Martial Arts would be kinda painful.

Numbers crunched in my personal DPR spreadsheet, which I've been rebuilding with new PHB info.

 

[Mistwell]

Why would fighters want to attack with charisma?

So they could be terrible at both acrobatics AND athletics! So they couldn't even carry the weight of heavy armor! So they can't drag a ally out of danger! So they need to burn a bonus action every time they want to change weapons! So they will be terrible at grapple and shove! So they will be a level behind on all their class features!

Because there is no downside to it and it makes them better at the social pillar. The bigger question is why wouldn't they if they can so easily?

See, nor downside!

 

[EzekielRaiden]

For Fighter with a 1 level dip in Monk, it's a great boost for up to Fighter level 4 (character levels 2-5), but collapses after that. If you're going for two-weapon fighting, picking up Dual Wielder gets you the same benefit as the Monk dip, and it ends up being a wash, or better for the single-class Fighter after that. (If you don't get the DW feat, the Monk dip is strongly ahead.) And if you go to heavy weapons, you can't use them and the Martial Arts offhand attack at the same time. Putting aside juggling shenanigans, a greatsword build with GWM outclasses the dual wield build.

Still, there are cases where I could see doing it. In a recent D&D game, it took us a year of play to get to level 4. That's a huge amount of time where I could have boosted my damage by like 50% with a dip. But if the game moves a lot faster, you'll be hitting levels where it's more a hindrance than a help. And losing the bonus Monk damage because you got a sparkly magic longsword which doesn't let you use Martial Arts would be kinda painful.

Numbers crunched in my personal DPR spreadsheet, which I've been rebuilding with new PHB info.

Mostly unrelated aside: Do you mind if, in possible future threads here on ENWorld, I cite this post as an example of a phenomenon I have seen with regard to 5e? That is, the fact that it took you a year of adventuring just to reach level 4. This is demonstrative of a pattern I had seen, and which folks have questioned whether it ever happens at all. If you have any reason for saying "no", regardless of what it is, I am perfectly happy with that.

 

[Minigiant]

It's simple.

There is a curve of power from level 1 to level 8 for Martials. Starting kit, Subclass, Extra Attack, Subclass/Feat, Feat.

Dipping disrupts that curve. Power now over Power later.

The key is host fast and how long your game is.

For tables that rush to 3rd and stay between 4th and 9th for most of the time Monty Hauling the whole way, dipping isn't great.

 

[mellored]

So the multiclass is:
level 1: same (single class fighter)
level 2-3: 6.5 more (does not include action surge)

Your also ignoring the sublass.
Getting 4 Ripost attacks per short is going to make up a lot of ground. Possibly even dealing more damage.

level 4: 2.5 less

Are you assuming 17->18 Str ?

level 5: 8 less
level 6: 1 more

What other feat are you assuming?
If it's PAM then you need to also add in reaction attacks.

level 7: 4 more

This is using GWM, but GWM is not going to be an optimal melee build any more except possibly at very high levels. Vex-Nick combo with light weapons will be in terms of DPR at most levels.

Not sure about that one.

If an ally puts down a zone and you want to Push. Which i expect will be pretty common and optimal. +2d4 damage per attack if there is a cloud of Daggers.

Assuming a cloud of Daggers, and pushing out and back in, that's +2d4 per attack.

Though i guess you can use the monk bonus attack to grapple and drag too.

More math needed.

 

[mellored]

Still need to evaluate more, and it depends on the party and level, but IMO the highest damage fighter goes..

Fighter 1-5 with 17 Str
-with a maul (topple) If you have melee allies
-or shortsword (Vex) + Scimitar if you don't.
-trident (topple) as backup

Pick up GWM at 4, 18 Str, and using the maul sticking with Maul.

Dip monk at 6.
-Trident + bonus grapple any time you have zone out.
-Maul + bonus punch if you don't.

Then grab Grappler at 7.

 

[mellored]

If your playing solo / without teamwork.

Then straight fighter with polearm master at 4 with Pike to Push will net you a lot of reactions attacks.

Hit an enemy, pushing them 10'.
Back up 30'.
They now need to dash to reach you, and you can reaction hit them again.

GWM at 6.

Tactical (7?) shift can optionally help position.

Charger at 8 will help with positioning even more.


Doesn't work as well with teammates, as the enemy can just targe them instead of triggering reactions.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

I honestly don't see multiclassing being that big of a deal in 5.24 as in 5.14. The way feats and ASI are constructed now discourages it, especially when you need to get a feat at level 19 or 20* to get an Epic Boon, which are pretty good. Monk and Barbarian in particular don't want to multiclass - even if you want Weapon Masteries for a Monk, in some cases you are better off taking Weapon Master Feat.

* - or was it that you need a specific class feature named Epic Boon everyone get at level 19? I'm not sure.

 

[mellored]

* - or was it that you need a specific class feature named Epic Boon everyone get at level 19? I'm not sure.

Don't have the book, but I think Epic Boons are just feats with character level 19 prerequisite.

So if your a paladin 7/warlock 3/bard 8 (level 18)

Then you can grab an epic boon with paladin 8 (level 19), and a second with warlock 4 (level 20).

 

[Clint_L]

Don't have the book, but I think Epic Boons are just feats with character level 19 prerequisite.

So if your a paladin 7/warlock 3/bard 8 (level 18)

Then you can grab an epic boon with paladin 8 (level 19), and a second with warlock 4 (level 20).

That definitely seems like an exploit to me. I'd veto that, as I strongly doubt that it's the intent and even if the wording permits it, it's bad design. I very strongly doubt the intent of epic boons is to make multi-classing basically mandatory.

If that's RAW, which again I think is unlikely, I'd instantly overrule it.