D&D 5E Should the Paladin be changed into a more generic half-caster magic knight?

[Micah Sweet]

I literally posted it on the last page Micah, c'mon.

Wasn't responding to you.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

One idea I often see paired with swordmages is runes. The WoW death knights, and the spellswords from Abhorsen use runic type magic.

However, anything runic in DnD is super specific to giants, and doesn't seem to exist anywhere else in the lore. So even though runes are a common fantasy trope, they're not a DnD trope.

 

[Mind of tempest]

But this is exactly why I don't think WotC will ever make one-- because "generic" classes just don't interest them. The only generic ones right now in the game are the Fighter and the Rogue-- where their identity and "job title" comes from their subclass, and not the class itself. The other 11? All are flavorful classes. So if they were to make a new class, I would expect it to have a flavor as to who they are and what they do in the world-- say something like the 'Witcher' archetype-- rather than just be a warrior / arcane caster combo pile of mechanics that the player is meant to flavor however they want.

Sure, there are players out there that might happily take that... but it's not what WotC wants to make I don't believe. D&D isn't GURPS.

there is a medium between hyper-specific and so broad as to nearly be anything.
it should be no more specific than paladin and ranger and should be a able to have other small concepts contained in it.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

There was a thread a while ago about establishing a spellsword narrative (and even a class name).

But it very quickly became apparent that people didn't want any class identity apart from 'hit people, do magic'.

 

[DinoInDisguise]

I understand where you're coming from, but IMO WotC simply has far too big a piece of the pie to be supportive of their further runaway success. I don't believe any industry needs one company and one product to be vastly more profitable and visible than all the others (at least, not this much). It leads the consumer to equate the industry with the product. How does that help anyone not making (in this case) WotC D&D? I don't specifically want WotC to fail, but I don't want them as big and influential (and very aware of those facts) as they currently are.

You say, "A higher tide rises all boats". I say, "trickle-down economics doesn't really work".

You can believe whatever you'd like. All evidence points towards 5e players "trickling" into other systems and publishers over time. Simply pretending otherwise, out of vitriol for a system, does not alter the reality in which we live.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

As well as missing a narrative identity, an arcane gish also doesn't have much of a mechanical identity anymore.

Due to paladin's beating them up and stealing their signature mechanics, which was imbuing their weapons with magic to strike with.

 

[Shardstone]

As well as missing a narrative identity, an arcane gish also doesn't have much of a mechanical identity anymore.

Due to paladin's beating them up and stealing their signature mechanics, which was imbuing their weapons with magic to strike with.

These are only problems for people unwilling to create something outside old tradition. I for one am bored having to play the same classes thatve always existed 20+ years.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

These are only problems for people unwilling to create something outside old tradition. I for one am bored having to play the same classes thatve always existed 20+ years.

But if you make something which completely ignores all the people asking for a magus/swordmage/duskblade/hexblade/eldritch knight/bladesinger class, you just end up creating gish camp number 17.

While all the people from every other gish camp continue asking for when the class they once enjoyed is being added.

You need something which can incorporate both the missing gish identities from prior editions, while also establishing an overall class lore and mechanics which doesn't invalidate those.

 

[CreamCloud0]

As well as missing a narrative identity, an arcane gish also doesn't have much of a mechanical identity anymore.

Due to paladin's beating them up and stealing their signature mechanics, which was imbuing their weapons with magic to strike with.

even if the paladin also exists i think we can manage to produce two simultaneous but distinct magical-weapon classes, if the paladin is a striker-supporter make the swordmage a controller-defender, or some other role.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You can believe whatever you'd like. All evidence points towards 5e players "trickling" into other systems and publishers over time. Simply pretending otherwise, out of vitriol for a system, does not alter the reality in which we live.

Agree to disagree then. I just don't see the value to non-WotC gamers to WotC being all-powerful in the industry. I'm not pretending anything. I just don't think you're right.