Project Sigil All the Deets on Project Sigil the D&D 3D Virtual Tabletop

• Danger in Dunbarrow is the adventure designed to introduced the 3D tabletop.
• Bring in any character from D&D Beyond.
• 'Mini Maker' lets you design digital miniatures.
• Assets designed to feel like buying a high-end mini or figure somewhere between painted and realistic.
• Plug in locations like graveyard, mine, town each with a premade story you can use or ignore.
• "Modding games more than making them whole cloth."
• The Level Builder is like 'the best miniatures set that you could have'. Snap together different kit pieces.
• Secret doors, traps, lifts that go up and down.
• Also use 2D tokens with artwork you have.
• Also use 2D maps.
• You can play other games with it, not just D&D.
• Have Drizzt fight Optimus Prime.
• Share content with others.
• Starting on PC, other platforms later including mobile and console.
• Will be available to try out for free.
• Closed beta coming this fall for those with a DDB account.
• Pre-order 2024 physical and digital core rulebook bundle to get a free digital gold dragon mini to 'kickstarter your Project Sigil collection'.

 

[Clint_L]

Depending upon the audience, a team could potentially leverage a combination of social issues & shame to sell something.

Yes. How is this different than any other product? Is your criticism of the VTT that it is a product that is for sale? Noted: capitalism bad.

"Want to prove that you are a good ally to have in a party? Equip your next character with the new Rainbow Bolt cantrip."

(Note: I am not in any way against supporting marginalized people. I'm highlighting sales tactics common among contemporary companies -especially in America- that are used to push product at certain times of the year.)

Veterans Day: The limited edition 5-Finger-Death-Punch strike for your monk, for the character that was born with a shotgun I'm their hand. Want some boomstick for the other classes in your game? Buy the premium digital-foil pack.

Maybe each of those things is also just slightly mechanically better than the basic options.

My apologies. I had assumed that everyone on this forum understood how D&D was played.

Just so you and others understand, in the game of D&D, you don't get to just say what abilities, spells, and equipment your character has, and it is so. Sadly, there are rules, and then there is a "Dungeon Master" who interprets and adjudicates those rules at your table. So what you are describing is not possible in the game of D&D. Perhaps you are thinking of some other game that superficially resembles it?

This is unfortunate for me personally, as my 30th anniversary Death Knight Riding a Gargantuan Dragon miniature will be arriving soon from the Reaper Bones 6 Kickstarter, and I was hoping I could just plop it down on the table and announce that it is my new character and, yes, owning the miniature means I get to start the campaign with an ancient dragon as my mount. There would be nothing the DM could do because I bought it!

Seriously, can folks just stop raising the spectre of "special powers/equipment/spells will be bought and sold, unbalancing the game!" That's not how D&D works, and you know it. That's not even conceivably how D&D could work. So maybe we could focus on discussing things that are real and not imaginary possibilities?

For an extra level of obfuscation, don't directly charge for money. Instead of the special options being $20 (or whatever price,) they cost 100 Dungeon Bucks.

To get the Dungeon Bucks, you pay something, but the end result is that the "prices" listed on the content (or randomized packs or whatever) are not associated with real dollar amounts. So, mentally, the customer is gaslit into spending money without thinking of it as spending money.

I mean...sure. WotC, or any other company, could do that with their products at any time. It seems nonsensical, since WotC is more than happy to just charge things directly to your VISA, but okay.

So now we're playing the game of "the VTT is bad because I can imagine outlandish possibilities, I don't like WotC, and capitalism bad." I'm gonna continue to need actual facts and evidence before I make up my mind about it.

It's a product. Specifically, it's a digital version of things I already collect: miniatures and terrain for tabletop gaming. This is not a new thing in the world, and I have tried other VTTs and not liked them, other than the very basic 2d VTT that is already included in my DDB subscription. So to get my money, it will need to offer better value and user experience than, say, Roll20 or Foundry.

Will it allow players to buy special modifications to make their character more powerful in the game? No, because that's not how D&D works or can work. Will it potentially include marketing techniques such as [*gasp*] discounts and limited time offers? Yes, almost certainly. Could it conceivably include a digital version of Wizkids blind boxes? Yep, and I might well buy them, if I judge them a good value - I've bought Wizkids blind boxes, and I'm not some rube.

I have yet to see a single reasonable argument for why WotC's VTT is bad for the game. It's just the digital version of something that D&D itself originally grew out of: miniatures and terrain. It'll either be good, or it won't, and it will either succeed or it won't. Either way, nothing has to change in how any of us play the game. I have a huge investment in physical miniatures and terrain, so that will likely continue to be my preferred way to play D&D. But if others love and embrace this VTT, what's it to me?

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

We are talking about a VTT, not a CRPG. They work in a different way and then you can't use the same marketing strategy. Maybe in the future D&DBeyond could offer software tools to create your own CRPGs.

I know no VTT and then I am not enough informed to compare, but WotC has to offer something they rest can't.

This can't be like season pass in Fornite where you have to play certain time to unlock all the levels. Among other reasons because you can't find easily the time to play with your favorite game partners.

Today a lot of gamers feel scammed, and they will think twice before spending their money. Don't hope they were like cows awaiting to be milked.

The player has to be happy with the product, not only happy but "in love". And they would rather to spend the money into something could be enjoyed in offline mode.

Other suggestion is actual-play shows in youtube where this VTT is used.

Some players wanted to play their homemade d20 version of their favorite hero shooter videogame. Or they would wish to playtest their update version of optional rules from 3.5 Unearthed Arcana sourcebook.

Maybe in the future D&DBeyond could offer to play other miniatures board games, like Zombicide, with the original rules, or your homemade version.

 

[Argyle King]

Yes. How is this different than any other product? Is your criticism of the VTT that it is a product that is for sale? Noted: capitalism bad.

My apologies. I had assumed that everyone on this forum understood how D&D was played.

Just so you and others understand, in the game of D&D, you don't get to just say what abilities, spells, and equipment your character has, and it is so. Sadly, there are rules, and then there is a "Dungeon Master" who interprets and adjudicates those rules at your table. So what you are describing is not possible in the game of D&D. Perhaps you are thinking of some other game that superficially resembles it?

This is unfortunate for me personally, as my 30th anniversary Death Knight Riding a Gargantuan Dragon miniature will be arriving soon from the Reaper Bones 6 Kickstarter, and I was hoping I could just plop it down on the table and announce that it is my new character and, yes, owning the miniature means I get to start the campaign with an ancient dragon as my mount. There would be nothing the DM could do because I bought it!

Seriously, can folks just stop raising the spectre of "special powers/equipment/spells will be bought and sold, unbalancing the game!" That's not how D&D works, and you know it. That's not even conceivably how D&D could work. So maybe we could focus on discussing things that are real and not imaginary possibilities?

I mean...sure. WotC, or any other company, could do that with their products at any time. It seems nonsensical, since WotC is more than happy to just charge things directly to your VISA, but okay.

So now we're playing the game of "the VTT is bad because I can imagine outlandish possibilities, I don't like WotC, and capitalism bad." I'm gonna continue to need actual facts and evidence before I make up my mind about it.

It's a product. Specifically, it's a digital version of things I already collect: miniatures and terrain for tabletop gaming. This is not a new thing in the world, and I have tried other VTTs and not liked them, other than the very basic 2d VTT that is already included in my DDB subscription. So to get my money, it will need to offer better value and user experience than, say, Roll20 or Foundry.

Will it allow players to buy special modifications to make their character more powerful in the game? No, because that's not how D&D works or can work. Will it potentially include marketing techniques such as [*gasp*] discounts and limited time offers? Yes, almost certainly. Could it conceivably include a digital version of Wizkids blind boxes? Yep, and I might well buy them, if I judge them a good value - I've bought Wizkids blind boxes, and I'm not some rube.

I have yet to see a single reasonable argument for why WotC's VTT is bad for the game. It's just the digital version of something that D&D itself originally grew out of: miniatures and terrain. It'll either be good, or it won't, and it will either succeed or it won't. Either way, nothing has to change in how any of us play the game. I have a huge investment in physical miniatures and terrain, so that will likely continue to be my preferred way to play D&D. But if others love and embrace this VTT, what's it to me?

I didn't say it was "bad." (I also don't necessarily think capitalism is bad, but "capitalism" as some contemporary people use the word may be.)

I was commenting on how it could be monetized.

In such a hypothetical structure, you could choose what abilities you have in a game by participating in something like "official" DDB Adventure League games.

Another option for monetization -and the one I brought up a few months ago- would be to sell the physical boxes of randomized minis and also have some option to scan the minis you own into the VTT.

In that way, you can still push the idea of "rares" and exclusives; maintain incentive to buy physical product in an increasingly digital model; and leverage different parts of the brand to cross-pollinate the various target audiences.

 

[Oofta]

I didn't say it was "bad." (I also don't necessarily think capitalism is bad, but "capitalism" as some contemporary people use the word may be.)

I was commenting on how it could be monetized.

In such a hypothetical structure, you could choose what abilities you have in a game by participating in something like "official" DDB Adventure League games.

AL games have limitations on how much and what tier of magic items you can have. Since what your character has is largely based on those restrictions and the honor system, your claim holds no weight.

Another option for monetization -and the one I brought up a few months ago- would be to sell the physical boxes of randomized minis and also have some option to scan the minis you own into the VTT.

In that way, you can still push the idea of "rares" and exclusives; maintain incentive to buy physical product in an increasingly digital model; and leverage different parts of the brand to cross-pollinate the various target audiences.

Even if they do, the upgrades will be cosmetic. Just like I like painting minis, people ooh and ah over them for a minute or two and then we move on with the other 99% of the game day. It's just not that big of a deal.

What players have in their possession, what monsters are used, has always been and will always be controlled by the DM. Visual effects? If people care about them, let them buy them. It's called "selling a product people find worth the money they spend".

 

[UngainlyTitan]

(The following dramatization is based on an assumption that a large corporation wants to make more money.)

Don't underestimate the power of FOMO.
A team could also mix it with a little bit of guilt, crib some notes from televangelists, and BOOM Sales!

"Hey, everybody! This Faux Jangles, and I'm here to thank this month's list of special gold members. They have elevated their games to the next level..." "...and now, they're not only saving Faerun, but the baby turtles in the real world. You can be hero too; all you have to do is upgrade to gold, and we will donate a portion* of your subscription fee to the Imaginary Turtle Friend Network." *1% of net proceeds.


Depending upon the audience, a team could potentially leverage a combination of social issues & shame to sell something.

"Want to prove that you are a good ally to have in a party? Equip your next character with the new Rainbow Bolt cantrip."

(Note: I am not in any way against supporting marginalized people. I'm highlighting sales tactics common among contemporary companies -especially in America- that are used to push product at certain times of the year.)

Veterans Day: The limited edition 5-Finger-Death-Punch strike for your monk, for the character that was born with a shotgun I'm their hand. Want some boomstick for the other classes in your game? Buy the premium digital-foil pack.

Maybe each of those things is also just slightly mechanically better than the basic options.


For an extra level of obfuscation, don't directly charge for money. Instead of the special options being $20 (or whatever price,) they cost 100 Dungeon Bucks.

To get the Dungeon Bucks, you pay something, but the end result is that the "prices" listed on the content (or randomized packs or whatever) are not associated with real dollar amounts. So, mentally, the customer is gaslit into spending money without thinking of it as spending money.

As far as the dragons, I made those two names up. But a marketing team could attach special significance to them.

Aside from in application currency none of the above monetization strategies work in D&D, not with out buy in from the rest of the table and does anyone at a table want to see a microtransaction fuelled arms race at the table?
Come back when you have something real to be concerned about.

 

[Argyle King]

Aside from in application currency none of the above monetization strategies work in D&D, not with out buy in from the rest of the table and does anyone at a table want to see a microtransaction fuelled arms race at the table?
Come back when you have something real to be concerned about.

Being that I don't currently subscribe and (as of the time of this post) never have, I wouldn't say that I'm concerned about it.

I do have real concerns though. Should I DM you the list of things that I find concerning in the world?

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Being that I don't currently subscribe and (as of the time of this post) never have, I wouldn't say that I'm concerned about it.

Ok, Yuo do not subscribe? to What? D&DBeyond I am guessing, I am not sure how that is relevant but.

I do have real concerns though. Should I DM you the list of things that I find concerning in the world?

Real concerns are fair enough, I am mildly interested but not about the whole world just the new VTT or D&DBeyond.

 

[Theory of Games]

Sigil's going to be AWESOME! It is going to change the way D&D is played. You guys excited?

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Suggestion, but these digital sets should where possibly have the ability to print them using a 3d printer.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Sigil's going to be AWESOME! It is going to change the way D&D is played. You guys excited?

I doubt it will change how it’s played as VTT’s already exist to play it. But it will make the games look very visually interesting in my opinion.