How Dragonbane Pointed out the Clashing Desires of My Gaming Group

[Retreater]

have you considered some board games or maybe CRPG / computer tactical game? Sounds like these would be closer to the requirements

Not sure I know of any TTRPG that meets them (of course there are plenty I do not know…)

They have shot down the D&D-adjacent board game suggestions I've made, including HeroQuest, Descent, Gloomhaven, etc.
I don't really play CRPGs, but my wife has enjoyed Baldur's Gate without me. They can go on raids together if they want.

 

[Retreater]

I thought they liked PF2 and tactical games tho? Is this just something they say but are not willing to put in the work? If, so Id point out to them that you need help running the game from their end.

They do not put in the work to understand complex games or their characters' abilities within them. Perhaps it would be different with an actively supported system like PF2 as opposed to 4E - where they can read on Archives of Nethys, use Pathbuilder, etc.
It's just - my lord it's complex. Like, remember you're Enfeebled 2 so take 2 points off all your Strength-based checks and you're off-guard, so they gain +2 to hit you. Don't forget to roll a flat check to stop your bleeding condition. Here, let me shift your Initiative score because the dragon knocked you unconscious the previous turn.
You know, stuff like that. When 5E pushes them to the breaking point of complexity.

 

[Aldarc]

But Fabula Ultima, yeah, I've thought about it. I have the Core Book, Press Start, and High Fantasy. (I'd like to get ahold of Techno-Fantasy when it's wildly available.)

I picked it up a couple months ago, so I'm not comfortable enough with it to run a game. I do have it in the consideration of "down the road." However, I am concerned that a bunch of 40-somethings are going to be put off by the anime look and JRPG stylings. I am hesitant that I'm not immersed in that type of game. Like, I've played the first Dragon Quest (Dragon Warrior at the time) and Final Fantasy I. That's pretty much it. I don't watch anime, I haven't played Final Fantasy since it's been on disc. A lot of the tropes, I honestly don't get.

My partner doesn't play JRPGs nor are they super interested in anme. My partner had played less than 5 TTRPGs (i.e., D&D 5e, FAGE, DW, and Numenera), almost entirely in one-to-two-shots across several years of the pandemic. They were always the player. They were interested in running a game. I recommended Fabula Ultima, particularly using Press Start. They it read through a few times and then ran it pretty well. More importantly, my partner had a lot of fun. Press Start is like the tutorial level of a video game that slowly introduces the game as you play.

The only major change I recommend is using the new Initiative method that the designer uses: named villains go first, then PCs, and then unnamed monsters/villains.

 

[Retreater]

My partner doesn't play JRPGs nor are they super interested in anme. My partner had played less than 5 TTRPGs (i.e., D&D 5e, FAGE, DW, and Numenera), almost entirely in one-to-two-shots across several years of the pandemic. They were always the player. They were interested in running a game. I recommended Fabula Ultima, particularly using Press Start. They it read through a few times and then ran it pretty well. More importantly, my partner had a lot of fun. Press Start is like the tutorial level of a video game that slowly introduces the game as you play.

The only major change I recommend is using the new Initiative method that the designer uses: named villains go first, then PCs, and then unnamed monsters/villains.

So your partner is normally the player but doesn't normally play RPGs at all, then had a lot of fun running the quickstart adventure?
If I got that correct, I have hope in my abilities to run it.

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

I'm only on page 3 of the discussion, but it doesn't sound like a cohesive group. And that's not on you.

You're doing the best you can to provide for them, as well as have enjoyment yourself. Having your wife not enjoy the game is also a different issue - as you said, you want to prioritize having 'together' time.

It doesn't sound like they enjoyed any of the other games you mentioned. Being adults, especially if you're staring at spreadsheets all day, you really don't want to have inventory management be so heavy; I feel like that was an issue with Vanilla WoW - being in raids was literally a second unpaid job, due to the character prep.

I'd have thought 4e would be alright because every does have a chart of what they can do. Some people like that, some people don't.

Maybe they don't want campaigns and heavy story. Maybe they want Conan type adventures where you make all this gold, come to town, waste it and 'crap, we're broke again... guess it's back to the dungeon.'

 

[MichaelSomething]

Have you considered going to startplaying.games and hiring a DM to run the game instead?

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

Have you considered going to startplaying.games and hiring a DM to run the game instead?

Not only have I done this a few times, but it's also a good way to get a shot at some more obscure games. Last time I went on, I saw someone running a 1e AD&D City State of the Invincible Overlord campaign... something I've not thought about since about 1987 when I joined my first real campaign.

 

[payn]

They do not put in the work to understand complex games or their characters' abilities within them. Perhaps it would be different with an actively supported system like PF2 as opposed to 4E - where they can read on Archives of Nethys, use Pathbuilder, etc.
It's just - my lord it's complex. Like, remember you're Enfeebled 2 so take 2 points off all your Strength-based checks and you're off-guard, so they gain +2 to hit you. Don't forget to roll a flat check to stop your bleeding condition. Here, let me shift your Initiative score because the dragon knocked you unconscious the previous turn.
You know, stuff like that. When 5E pushes them to the breaking point of complexity.

Maybe you need to run with Foundry or another VTT that does the work for them?

 

[Aldarc]

So your partner is normally the player but doesn't normally play RPGs at all, then had a lot of fun running the quickstart adventure?

Correct.

If I got that correct, I have hope in my abilities to run it.

It still may not be the game for your group. But when you think that they should play Gloomhaven and some people are recommending WoW, then I think that a tabletop game with "video game logic" could potentially work. It's also a game influenced by some of the games mentioned in this thread (or on the KotLC Discord ): 4e D&D, 13th Age, and Apocalypse/Dungeon World.

Boss monsters do play by different rules, but it's again video game logic: e.g., the boss flees the scene ("you haven't seen the last of me!") or the boss has multiple phases (e.g., boss merges with the demon lord, activates artifact that corrupts her, the boss jumps into the mech suit, etc.).

 

[innerdude]

@Retreater I've read through this thread a couple of times, and it really does sound like CRPGs are the answer for this group. Their preferences all seem to point significantly away from what tabletop RPGs offer as their core value proposition.

The whole point of a human GM is to create those exploration/roleplaying interfaces between player and gameworld that simply don't exist in computer RPGs. It sounds like your group largely just wants you to be a tactical combat number-crunch-meister. Computers are way better at that.

I do think the upthread suggestion to maybe take a look at a Paizo 3e-era adventure path might be a good idea. Though I found running Pathfinder 1e for anything Level 5 and above to be a pretty heavy lift as a GM. Having an adventure path and pre-written enemies to use would make it easier though.