D&D (2024) The Problem with Healing Powercreep

[Micah Sweet]

Only if you don't want narrative roleplay.

Nah, can't take short rests when your dead. If everyone dies in combat, the game stops.

I don't want narrative combat, or narrative mechanics. Does that count? And the risk of everyone dying in combat is, IME, very much overblown in these discussions.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I don't want narrative combat, or narrative mechanics. Does that count?

Cool. But you're also not arguing that not wanting those things is the one correct way to paly dnd and anyone who wants those things is wrong.

And the risk of everyone dying in combat is, IME, very much overblown in these discussions.

Take away whack-a-mole by just not letting people get up when dropped to zero will greatly increase TPKs.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Cool. But you're also not arguing that not wanting those things is the one correct way to paly dnd and anyone who wants those things is wrong.


Take away whack-a-mole by just not letting people get up when dropped to zero will greatly increase TPKs.

Not in my experience. Retreat is almost always an option if the situation is being modeled logically, and even if you can't retreat, there are plenty of good in-setting reasons why the enemy wouldn't just murder everyone, depending on the circumstances. Whack-a-mole tactics discourage logical choices IMO.

But you're right, I'm not professing one true way here, just stating my preference.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I maintain that the explanation for D&D hit points (at least for humanoids) that makes the most sense is Aura.

I've never heard that before. Interesting take on it.

 

[AnotherGuy]

The problem with that, from a game design and game play perspective, is that people then want to come up with ways to circumvent the hit points and get straight to the meat (sneak attack, crits, attacking people while they're asleep, etc).

Disagree. Sneak Attack (given its an every round ability) and Crits need not affect a Wound Track directly. They can still affect a person's overall Providence and Stamina, but just deplete a lot more of it.
Coup De Grâce is different. That works differently from table to table.

That can in turn be countered by building in sub-systems that give PCs Conan-like awareness and reflexes, to avoid those threats. But that makes for mechanically complex play.

Maybe. It would certainly have to be a modular option.

 

[Staffan]

I've never heard that before. Interesting take on it.

Here's why:

• It explains why you get more hp as you level up. Stronger soul, more aura.
• It explains why performance isn't affected by injuries until you hit 0.
• At the same time, it allows for attacks to actually hit and deliver secondary effects. The otyugh might only hit you for 10 points out of your 50 so there's no real injury, but it still grapples you. The snake might only hit you for one hit point out of 25, but you still need to roll a Con save against its venom. The giant's golf swing might knock you across the battlefield, but it's still only 20 hp of damage. This is hard to do under the "hp is damage mitigation" theory.
• It also explains why they recover fairly quickly with rest during the day, and fully during a long rest, and how certain magical effects (notably cure-type spells) replenish it even faster.

For those unfamiliar with the concept:

 

[pemerton]

Disagree. Sneak Attack (given its an every round ability) and Crits need not affect a Wound Track directly. They can still affect a person's overall Providence and Stamina, but just deplete a lot more of it.
Coup De Grâce is different. That works differently from table to table.

Maybe. It would certainly have to be a modular option.

Well I'm not claiming to make a logical deduction, just a generalisation from past examples: the first version of a hp/wound system I know of was published in White Dwarf in 1979 (Roger Musson, "How to Lose Hit Points and Survive") (How to Lose Hit Points ... and Survive - RPGnet RPG Game Index), and it had ways to bypass the hp pool, based on realism-type considerations (undefended attacks, etc). And then the WotC version (wound/vitality, found in a Star Wars edition and maybe some other d20 variants) had a similar thing.

I think you mentioned the 4e disease/curse track as a way of tracking lingering injuries? That would be one possible way to do it and still try and resist the pressure of "realism" to let certain sorts of successful attack bypass hp. You would probably do it via (i) healing surge depletion, and (ii) limits on the ability to spend healing surges.

 

[Vaalingrade]

A great concept from a series that ate itself.

 

[Lanefan]

Only if you don't want narrative roleplay.

Not sure what the connection is here. Swingy combats don't impede narrative RP, nor vice-versa. As long as someone survives, the story goes on.

Nah, can't take short rests when your dead. If everyone dies in combat, the game stops.

As long as someone's willing (a) and able (b) to run away, not everyone dies.

(a) - this requires player action in-character in both getting and using means of escape
(b) - this requires DM action e.g. by providing escape-route possibilities

The only TPK I've had in 40+ years came in part because the module I was running prevented me from doing (b) above. They had nowhere to run to (the adventure was set in a little tiny demiplane) and the only way out was through the thing that killed them. Not a module I'd run again unless I made some big changes to it.

 

[Lanefan]

Take away whack-a-mole by just not letting people get up when dropped to zero will greatly increase TPKs.

Only until they learn to take proactive measures before anyone gets dropped to 0 to prevent that occurrence: avoiding combat, using healing abilities while still well above 0, changing tactics to favour ranged attacks and eschew melee when possible, hiring more muscle (e.g. henches etc.) for the front line, etc. etc.; and most of all being willing to bail out when things go sideways.