D&D (2024) D&D Dungeon Master’s Guide (2024)

[Micah Sweet]

A highly complicated version of Gauntlet is still Gauntlet; the basic play loop is the same, and just because it's being run on the most powerful computer known (the human brain) doesn't change the fact the goal of play was the same.

Maybe, but your description of it as Gauntlet clearly shows your negative feelings about the playstyle, and IMO in a disrespectful way that I didn't get from, say, @pemerton 's post about 1e and gold for XP.

 

[Remathilis]

Maybe, but your description of it as Gauntlet clearly shows your negative feelings about the playstyle, and IMO in a disrespectful way that I didn't get from, say, @pemerton 's post about 1e and gold for XP.

Yes, because the game has evolved past Gary's Gauntlet style of play to allow so many other styles. You can still play Gauntlet style games if you want, but there is nothing inherently better or more pure about Gary's style over any other.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yes, because the game has evolved past Gary's Gauntlet style of play to allow so many other styles. You can still play Gauntlet style games if you want, but there is nothing inherently better or more pure about Gary's style over any other.

But there also isn't anything inherently worse, so both should be respected.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The other point I’d like to make about players not knowing what successful play means without an XP for gold system is it completely ignores the existence of one of the most famous 1e adventures of all time: Ravenloft.

Whats the goal? Kill the vampire. No one needs to explain slay the monster to the players. It’s intuitive.

How do you do it? Oh there’s some items that will help you.

Where are they? Let’s let some randomness determine that.

And through it all, Strahd doesn’t stay locked in his starting location waiting for the PCs to show up. He’s out hunting the PCs before they can find the items.

The result: the adventure that perennially takes top spot on many people’s list of best D&D adventures of all time.

Honestly never thought it was all that great. Its got some interesting parts, and a lot that really doesn't work well, for reasons already touched on. There are systems out there which can handle this type of adventure, but D&D is not one of them.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

That’s what’s so crazy about this: if you read many of the adventures of that time from folks like Hickman, Jacquays, and even Gygax, the dungeon delve does not conform to this theory that is being laid out. It’s why I say Gygax was an unreliable source. He wrote the 1e rules with certain objectives in mind. He wrote his adventures with a completely different objective in mind.

The vast majority of modules are delves, sometimes with a bit of sauce, but still delves. The ones that are not? D&D offers basically no help in running them. Either the module has to spell everything out (and they inevitably fall short) or it becomes entirely dependent on the GM to work something out. Nor does 2e help!

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

and in 1e it is pretty unclear what actions get you the treasure or how much of it

I disagree strongly with this. You may not know for certain which door to open, but you know what to do, how to do it, and the risks involved. And there are tons of very highly coveted means to find out, from maps to treasure finding potions. Smart play is to find these, but them, make them, etc.

 

[TiQuinn]

Honestly never thought it was all that great. Its got some interesting parts, and a lot that really doesn't work well, for reasons already touched on. There are systems out there which can handle this type of adventure, but D&D is not one of them.

That’s fine but it consistently ranks highly for others. Both the original module and Curse of Strahd are highly regarded.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The vast majority of modules are delves, sometimes with a bit of sauce, but still delves. The ones that are not? D&D offers basically no help in running them. Either the module has to spell everything out (and they inevitably fall short) or it becomes entirely dependent on the GM to work something out. Nor does 2e help!

This is why I don't bother running modules. I look at what the game rules let me do, and design my setting, making what adjustments I feel like making to suit my needs better.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That’s fine but it consistently ranks highly for others. Both the original module and Curse of Strahd are highly regarded.

I liked it well enough, but I also feel its been re-done too many times. Hard for me to not see the continual re-hash in a poor light.

 

[Oofta]

I disagree strongly with this. You may not know for certain which door to open, but you know what to do, how to do it, and the risks involved. And there are tons of very highly coveted means to find out, from maps to treasure finding potions. Smart play is to find these, but them, make them, etc.

That may have been true in the games you played. Your experience is far from universal.