D&D (2024) Monks and the Weapon Mastery Feat

Vex is probably the worst, since less than half your attacks are with the weapon.

If you are taking and using Nick I would argue it is the best one to have.

Your Nick attack is always with a weapon and you need to make another attack with a light weapon to make it. I believe Vex is the only other property available with a light weapon. With extra attack you can string them Vex-Vex-Nick and if your multiclass is Rogue it can generate sneak attack when it is not otherwise available.

Also a hit with a Vex weapon also causes advantage on a following unarmed strike, so it does work with them

If you are getting masteries I think you are only generally going to use unarmed strikes for your bonus action attacks, when you want control (grapple/shove) or when someone is vulnerable to bludgeoning.

I do agree sap is really useful as well to someone using nick, but you would need 9 Fighter levels or swap weapons to do this with Nick.
 

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If you are taking and using Nick I would argue it is the best one to have.

Your Nick attack is always with a weapon and you need to make another attack with a light weapon to make it. I believe Vex is the only other property available with a light weapon. With extra attack you can string them Vex-Vex-Nick and if your multiclass is Rogue it can generate sneak attack when it is not otherwise available.

Also a hit with a Vex weapon also causes advantage on a following unarmed strike, so it does work with them

If you are getting masteries I think you are only generally going to use unarmed strikes for your bonus action attacks, when you want control (grapple/shove) or when someone is vulnerable to bludgeoning.
What are you using your bonus actions as a monk otherwise? Step of the wind etc?
I do agree sap is really useful as well to someone using nick, but you would need 9 Fighter levels or swap weapons to do this with Nick.
 

Opponents in that Darkness already attack the monk with disadvantage.

Definitely an option and alternative use for the feat but again built into Open Hand monks already plus it's situational.
You can't have both darkness and open hand.
That looks like an overkill approach given the monk's inherent movement bonuses.
There can be more than one enemy, and you likely have allies.

Nick has the same advantage here with monk's that it does with rogues in that it allows for that attack and keeps the bonus action available for other options that a monk can frequently use.
Rogues get a lot more out of Nick.
For them, it's a second chance to land sneak attack
The advantage of using the feat is building towards an ability score the monk uses and not delaying access to higher level abilities.
All the things I said apply to both the feat or multiclass.
Though multiclass lets you get both slow and nick.


And yea, Nick is the all ways useful option.
 

What are you using your bonus actions as a monk otherwise? Step of the wind etc?

No you can still use it for unarmed strike. You don't need a free hand to make an unarmed strike (although you do need one to grapple). So for a Monk5-Rogue1 who has no other allies close to the enemy who hits every attack:

Action:
Short Sword (Vex) - damage 1d8+Dex
Dagger with advantage (Nick) - damage 1d8 + 1d6 sneak attack
Extra Attack Short Sword (Vex) - 1d8 + Dex

Bonus action:
Unarmed Strike with advantage - 1d8+Dex
 

No you can still use it for unarmed strike. You don't need a free hand to make an unarmed strike (although you do need one to grapple). So for a Monk5-Rogue1 who has no other allies close to the enemy who hits every attack:

Action:
Short Sword (Vex) - damage 1d8+Dex
Dagger with advantage (Nick) - damage 1d8 + 1d6 sneak attack
Extra Attack Short Sword (Vex) - 1d8 + Dex

Bonus action:
Unarmed Strike with advantage - 1d8+Dex
Ok. I misread yoir sentence.
 

You can't have both darkness and open hand.

Don't need both. Darkness in the Shadow monk is for advantage. Topple in the Open Hand monk is for advantage.

But you also only get a limited number of Weapon Masteries with feat or splashing so we need to look at those overlaps. ;-)

I would also point out that all characters still have the Grapple and Shove options available. In the case of Monks they get benefits to Grapple and more opportunities to use Shove. It's just giving up damage and less potent in application. A practical application would be to Flurry, use both attacks to Shove for the Prone condition, move back taking AoO's at disadvantage (because getting overwhelmed in this example), and allowing other party members to move in on the 2 Prone opponents. Those are situationally viable options.

There can be more than one enemy

More than one enemy is why Darkness works.

and you likely have allies

Which requires caution at times.

Rogues get a lot more out of Nick.
For them, it's a second chance to land sneak attack

I disagree.

Rogues get the second chance at Sneak Attack with or without Nick by way of the second weapon attack. The benefit of Nick is in keeping the bonus action, for which rogues have a lot of use.

That's where it's similar for Monks. Monks have a lot of use for that bonus action and they get that extra attack with Nick that increases the number of chances to hit for things like Stunning Blow. It's not always about the damage.
 

Rogues get the second chance at Sneak Attack with or without Nick by way of the second weapon attack. The benefit of Nick is in keeping the bonus action, for which rogues have a lot of use.

That's where it's similar for Monks.
Nick on a rogue can deal 11d6 damage.
Chances of going from 1 attack to 2 attacks increases the chance to land sneak attack by 24%.


Nick on a monk can deal 1d12.
The chance of landing at least 1 hit with 5 attacks is 0.98976
Goes up to 0.995904 with 6
That's less than 1% better chance of landing a stunning strike.

2 to 3 attacks is a 9.6%.

The less attacks you have (rogue), and the bigger the add-on (also rogue), the more valuable Nick is.


Still a reasonable option for the monk. But rogues really want it.
 

Nick on a rogue can deal 11d6 damage.
Chances of going from 1 attack to 2 attacks increases the chance to land sneak attack by 24%.


Nick on a monk can deal 1d12.
The chance of landing at least 1 hit with 5 attacks is 0.98976
Goes up to 0.995904 with 6
That's less than 1% better chance of landing a stunning strike.

2 to 3 attacks is a 9.6%.

The less attacks you have (rogue), and the bigger the add-on (also rogue), the more valuable Nick is.


Still a reasonable option for the monk. But rogues really want it.

Most rogues aren't 20th level for that damage and your assessment is missing my point that the advantage in Nick is leaving the bonus action available for other options.

But if we're talking higher levels Monks have an easy 6 attacks with Nick and Flurry in tiers three and four starting at 10th level with Heightened Focus -- 1 from Nick, 2 from Extra Attack on the attack action, and 3 from Flurry.

Outside of using the focus point for flurry that would 4 attacks using the bonus action for an unarmed attack or 3 attacks using the bonus action for something else.

Coming from the premise that I am also using that bonus action for other purposes (a perk of adding an attack outside of the bonus action) the chance of landing a hit for Stunning should be 3 attacks vs 2 with the accuracy.
 

your assessment is missing my point that the advantage in Nick is leaving the bonus action available for other options.
Going from 1 attack to 2 attacks (not using your bonus action) increases the chance to land sneak attack by 24%.

Going 2 to 3 attacks (not using your bonus action) increases the chance to land stunning strike by 9.6%.

Going from 5 to 6 (high level using your bonus action) is less than 1%. Where it's still 24% for sneak attack.
 

Going from 1 attack to 2 attacks (not using your bonus action) increases the chance to land sneak attack by 24%.

Bonus action or not is still irrelevant there. The benefit in Nick is in keeping that bonus action available.

Going 2 to 3 attacks (not using your bonus action) increases the chance to land stunning strike by 9.6%.

That depends on the assumptions being made in the accuracy to hit in the first place. Easier targets and it's a whatever moment, harder targets the more attacks the better. But it's a 33.6% improvement over 1 attack using the accuracy assumptions you seem to be using.

Here, this was a quick spreadsheet that should show what I mean.

Attack bonus:​
6​
AC
1 Attack
2 Attacks
3 Attacks
4 Attacks
5 Attacks
10​
85.0%​
97.8%​
99.7%​
99.9%​
100.0%​
11​
80.0%​
96.0%​
99.2%​
99.8%​
100.0%​
12​
75.0%​
93.8%​
98.4%​
99.6%​
99.9%​
13​
70.0%​
91.0%​
97.3%​
99.2%​
99.8%​
14​
65.0%​
87.8%​
95.7%​
98.5%​
99.5%​
15
60.0%
84.0%
93.6%
97.4%
99.0%
16​
55.0%​
79.8%​
90.9%​
95.9%​
98.2%​
17​
50.0%​
75.0%​
87.5%​
93.8%​
96.9%​
18​
45.0%​
69.8%​
83.4%​
90.8%​
95.0%​
19​
40.0%​
64.0%​
78.4%​
87.0%​
92.2%​
20​
35.0%​
57.7%​
72.5%​
82.1%​
88.4%​
21​
30.0%​
51.0%​
65.7%​
76.0%​
83.2%​
22​
25.0%​
43.8%​
57.8%​
68.4%​
76.3%​
23​
20.0%​
36.0%​
48.8%​
59.0%​
67.2%​
24​
15.0%​
27.7%​
38.6%​
47.8%​
55.6%​
25​
10.0%​
19.0%​
27.1%​
34.4%​
41.0%​

I bolded where your numbers came up on the sheet. There's negligible increase in the 4th or 5th attack using Flurry if the goal is Stun but there's definitely a significant increase in that 3rd attack. The Flurry would be more about damage or other potential effects.

Stunned is action denial, concentration breaking, ends any effect that ends if incapacitated, and an autofail on STR and DEX saving throws. Sneak attack is typically more damage. Monks can add more damage and increase the likelihood of stunning high AC targets with that bonus action.

The rogue is keeping the bonus action using NIck pretty much for Cunning Action (dash, disengage, hide). The monk is keeping the bonus action using Nick for an Unarmed Attack, Flurry of Blows (even more attacks), Patient Defense (Disengage, or Disengage + Dodge, or later Disengage + Dodge + Temporary Hit Points), or Step of the Wind (Dash, or Disengage + Dash, or later Disengage + Dash + take a friend).

Monks have a lot of options for that Bonus Action. That 3rd attack is still a significant increase in landing Stunning Attack while keeping that Bonus Action.

Here is what it looks like later with a +5 ability score and +4 proficiency bonus....

12​
90.0%​
99.0%​
99.9%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
13​
85.0%​
97.8%​
99.7%​
99.9%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
14​
80.0%​
96.0%​
99.2%​
99.8%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
15​
75.0%​
93.8%​
98.4%​
99.6%​
99.9%​
100.0%​
16​
70.0%​
91.0%​
97.3%​
99.2%​
99.8%​
99.9%​
17​
65.0%​
87.8%​
95.7%​
98.5%​
99.5%​
99.8%​
18​
60.0%​
84.0%​
93.6%​
97.4%​
99.0%​
99.6%​
19​
55.0%​
79.8%​
90.9%​
95.9%​
98.2%​
99.2%​
20​
50.0%​
75.0%​
87.5%​
93.8%​
96.9%​
98.4%​
21​
45.0%​
69.8%​
83.4%​
90.8%​
95.0%​
97.2%​
22​
40.0%​
64.0%​
78.4%​
87.0%​
92.2%​
95.3%​
23​
35.0%​
57.7%​
72.5%​
82.1%​
88.4%​
92.5%​
24​
30.0%​
51.0%​
65.7%​
76.0%​
83.2%​
88.2%​
25​
25.0%​
43.8%​
57.8%​
68.4%​
76.3%​
82.2%​
26​
20.0%​
36.0%​
48.8%​
59.0%​
67.2%​
73.8%​
27​
15.0%​
27.7%​
38.6%​
47.8%​
55.6%​
62.3%​
28​
10.0%​
19.0%​
27.1%​
34.4%​
41.0%​
46.9%​
29​
5.0%​
9.8%​
14.3%​
18.5%​
22.6%​
26.5%​

That's also ignoring the 1's and 20's rules. And later.....

12​
100.0%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
13​
95.0%​
99.8%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
14​
90.0%​
99.0%​
99.9%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
15​
85.0%​
97.8%​
99.7%​
99.9%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
16​
80.0%​
96.0%​
99.2%​
99.8%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
17​
75.0%​
93.8%​
98.4%​
99.6%​
99.9%​
100.0%​
18​
70.0%​
91.0%​
97.3%​
99.2%​
99.8%​
99.9%​
19​
65.0%​
87.8%​
95.7%​
98.5%​
99.5%​
99.8%​
20​
60.0%​
84.0%​
93.6%​
97.4%​
99.0%​
99.6%​
21​
55.0%​
79.8%​
90.9%​
95.9%​
98.2%​
99.2%​
22​
50.0%​
75.0%​
87.5%​
93.8%​
96.9%​
98.4%​
23​
45.0%​
69.8%​
83.4%​
90.8%​
95.0%​
97.2%​
24​
40.0%​
64.0%​
78.4%​
87.0%​
92.2%​
95.3%​
25​
35.0%​
57.7%​
72.5%​
82.1%​
88.4%​
92.5%​
26​
30.0%​
51.0%​
65.7%​
76.0%​
83.2%​
88.2%​
27​
25.0%​
43.8%​
57.8%​
68.4%​
76.3%​
82.2%​
28​
20.0%​
36.0%​
48.8%​
59.0%​
67.2%​
73.8%​
29​
15.0%​
27.7%​
38.6%​
47.8%​
55.6%​
62.3%​
30​
10.0%​
19.0%​
27.1%​
34.4%​
41.0%​
46.9%​

Again, ignoring 1's and 20's. Here's with the monk capstone ability score bonuses a multiclass gives up....

14​
100.0%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
15​
95.0%​
99.8%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
16​
90.0%​
99.0%​
99.9%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
17​
85.0%​
97.8%​
99.7%​
99.9%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
18​
80.0%​
96.0%​
99.2%​
99.8%​
100.0%​
100.0%​
19​
75.0%​
93.8%​
98.4%​
99.6%​
99.9%​
100.0%​
20​
70.0%​
91.0%​
97.3%​
99.2%​
99.8%​
99.9%​
21​
65.0%​
87.8%​
95.7%​
98.5%​
99.5%​
99.8%​
22​
60.0%​
84.0%​
93.6%​
97.4%​
99.0%​
99.6%​
23​
55.0%​
79.8%​
90.9%​
95.9%​
98.2%​
99.2%​
24​
50.0%​
75.0%​
87.5%​
93.8%​
96.9%​
98.4%​
25​
45.0%​
69.8%​
83.4%​
90.8%​
95.0%​
97.2%​
26​
40.0%​
64.0%​
78.4%​
87.0%​
92.2%​
95.3%​
27​
35.0%​
57.7%​
72.5%​
82.1%​
88.4%​
92.5%​
28​
30.0%​
51.0%​
65.7%​
76.0%​
83.2%​
88.2%​
29​
25.0%​
43.8%​
57.8%​
68.4%​
76.3%​
82.2%​
30​
20.0%​
36.0%​
48.8%​
59.0%​
67.2%​
73.8%​

Not all targets have the same AC, and as the AC goes up the relevance of more attacks goes up with it when we're talking about important attacks like Sneak Attack or Stunning Strike.
 

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