D&D (2024) With Nick Weapon mastery do both weapons need to be nick to use it or only the first or only the 2nd?

[DrJawaPhD]

I do. The wording of Nick makes it clear to me that Light and Nick are mutually exclusive. It's one or the other, not both.

Please parse out an explanation of how the wording in the book that says this. I'm not trying to be pedantic here, the wording is very confusing

Light states "When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can make one extra attack as a bonus action later in the same turn", which Nick then modifies it to not require a bonus action but states that you can only do this free attack once per turn.

If you are able to take a second Attack action with a Light weapon, you again trigger the "you can make one extra attack as a bonus action" language. You are prevented from using the Nick property a second time, but you still have a bonus action available and no wording there prevents it from being used on an offhand attack.

 

[pukunui]

Please parse out an explanation of how the wording in the book that says this. I'm not trying to be pedantic here, the wording is very confusing

Light states "When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can make one extra attack as a bonus action later in the same turn", which Nick then modifies it to not require a bonus action but states that you can only do this free attack once per turn.

If you are able to take a second Attack action with a Light weapon, you again trigger the "you can make one extra attack as a bonus action" language. You are prevented from using the Nick property a second time, but you still have a bonus action available and no wording there prevents it from being used on an offhand attack.

I will quote myself from the other thread:

Nick reads "When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn."

To me, "this extra attack" in the second sentence is referring back to "the extra attack of the Light property" clause in the first sentence only, not the whole first sentence. It's clarifying that if you use Nick, you can't also take a bonus action to make an extra attack from the Light property. I see Light and Nick as mutually exclusive. Either/or.

The way I read it, the main purpose of Nick is to let you make that off-hand attack for free so you can still use Cunning Action or Bardic Inspiration or the like.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

To me, "this extra attack" in the second sentence is referring back to "the extra attack of the Light property" clause in the first sentence only, not the whole first sentence.

Ok yeah I don't agree with that at all. If the wording was referring to the extra attack of the Light property, it would've been written in the text for the Light property, not under the Nick property. "This extra attack" is referring to the free Nick attack

How in the world did such confusing language make it into the final copy, this is embarrassing

 

[pukunui]

Ok yeah I don't agree with that at all. If the wording was referring to the extra attack of the Light property, it would've been written in the text for the Light property, not under the Nick property. "This extra attack" is referring to the free Nick attack

How in the world did such confusing language make it into the final copy, this is embarrassing

It doesn’t need to be written in the Light property text because you normally can’t take more than one bonus action a turn anyway. So to me the second sentence of the Nick mastery is merely clarifying that you still can’t make more than one off-hand attack a turn even with that mastery.

 

[mellored]

"This extra attack" is referring to the free Nick attack

I could see it either way.

"This" could be referring to Nick extra attack, or the Light Weapon extra attack.

And I could see balance being fine either way too.

How in the world did such confusing language make it into the final copy, this is embarrassing

I don't expect perfection.

And I bet if you compare the errata list of other RPG books to this one, this one is far shorter.

 

[Shardstone]

That all seems correct to me.

It is particularly worth stressing that all the Nick mastery really does is remove the bonus action requirement for the off-hand Light weapon attack. It doesn't allow you to make two off-hand attacks (one with a bonus action and one without).

This is where my confusion came in.

 

[mellored]

Ok yeah I don't agree with that at all. If the wording was referring to the extra attack of the Light property, it would've been written in the text for the Light property, not under the Nick property. "This extra attack" is referring to the free Nick attack

How in the world did such confusing language make it into the final copy, this is embarrassing

From this article

"this doesn’t mean you can make a third attack as a Bonus Action, as the Light property specifies you only get one extra attack"

So that answers RAI.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

From this article

"this doesn’t mean you can make a third attack as a Bonus Action, as the Light property specifies you only get one extra attack"

So that answers RAI.

That article answers nothing about the edge cases of Action Surge or the Haste spell where you get a second Attack Action.

It answers RAW about a single Attack Action (without Extra Attack), and not getting 3 attacks out of it. I think we are all clear on this fact that the Light property only gives you one extra attack per Attack Action. But if you get multiple Attack Actions then Light will provide multiple opportunities for a bonus action attack

 

[Henadic Theologian]

I don't believe so, as that is a Magic action you make an attack with, not an Attack action.

I readily admit my understanding of TWF/Neck is not great right now though!

Can True Strike be used with other weapon masteries like Vex, Slow, Sap, etc...? Or are they like Nick requiring an attack action, not just an attack with a weapon?

 

[DrJawaPhD]

Can True Strike be used with other weapon masteries like Vex, Slow, Sap, etc...? Or are they like Nick requiring an attack action, not just an attack with a weapon?

Most weapon masteries say "If you hit a creature with this weapon..." (or Miss in the case of Graze) so would work fine with True Strike

Nick is unique in referencing the Attack Action, since it is triggered by attacking with another weapon instead of being triggered by the Nick weapon itself