D&D (2024) Experienced DMs, how useful is the 2024 DMG to you?

[OB1]

What I'm NOT seeing, though maybe I've missed it, is an overarching table of magic items by rarity. Which I'm not happy about.

Didn't really think about this, but if you don't want to pick a treasure category first you would roll a 1d4 to determine category, then the d100 for the appropriate rarity for that category.

 

[Oofta]

But your examples are just wrong. I play D&D. 5e is a VERSION of D&D. I've played D&D for a very long time. And the retroclones and lookalikes are also a form of D&D. So I'm very much in the middle of roleplaying in the D&D way.

So D&D is like the NFL. 5e 2024 is like the new kickoff rules. The entire game conceptually doesn't change every time a new edition comes out.

You were the one who self identified as one of the three or so people who are always negative. You were comparing 70s football to today's football so I assumed you were comparing 70s D&D to 2024 D&D. Maybe I was just confused. Lack. Of. Caffeine.

 

[Oofta]

Maybe what we need are two books. One can be about table management and getting new DMs started. The second would be about serious world building, weather, city design, npc design, tons of random tables, etc etc etc. There is probably a market for both.

I actually could see a DM's Options book at some point, although it probably would go by a different name. What it won't do though is include information that's already in the DMG because then people would complain about a cash grab duplicating information we already have.

I just don't know if WotC will ever consider the cost/benefit justified. There's a lot of competition out there and already a lot of sources for more detailed rules. I haven't had time to do a read-thru yet so ask me in a week or so. About the only thing I'm surprised about now is that there's no monster building rules but those could be in the MM. If not it won't be very long after that book is released before someone backward engineers the basics. But I could easily see them waiting until the MM is out so they can include better instructions as they finalize things.

 

[Emerikol]

I actually could see a DM's Options book at some point, although it probably would go by a different name. What it won't do though is include information that's already in the DMG because then people would complain about a cash grab duplicating information we already have.

I just don't know if WotC will ever consider the cost/benefit justified. There's a lot of competition out there and already a lot of sources for more detailed rules. I haven't had time to do a read-thru yet so ask me in a week or so. About the only thing I'm surprised about now is that there's no monster building rules but those could be in the MM. If not it won't be very long after that book is released before someone backward engineers the basics. But I could easily see them waiting until the MM is out so they can include better instructions as they finalize things.

There are many third party options. I find you need 10 books though to get 1 book of really useful stuff.

 

[Loren the GM]

My thoughts after some initial time with it over the last week:

• This is a great book on how to DM. The usefulness of that particular content will vary for the reader based on their current experience with DMing, but it is incredibly well presented. I wish I had had this book when I first started DMing.
• The general presentation overall of the book is excellent. It is well laid out, clearly written, and has great art work.
• For game time reference, I'm glad to have it, but much like the 2014 book, it isn't going to be a constant resource at this point for me. That said, I think when I DO need it, it will be easy to find the information I'm after.
• The Greyhawk info is interesting, but I don't run games in Greyhawk (or plan to), so not the most useful for me. That said, it is presented well, and I think does a good job of covering the setting in an approachable way.
• The most useful parts for me will likely be the Treasure/Magic Items, possibly Bastions, the clear layout so if I need to look up specific rule stuff I can in the DM's Toolbox section or encounter planning sections (for monster math), the Lore Glossary, and the various Tracking Sheets.
• The Creating Adventures section with several example adventures does a good job of tying to the Greyhawk content, and also presents a clear way for DMs to think about creating adventures. I like that the example adventures are much more stripped back than other adventure books or anthologies, providing more of a simple structure on how to think of adventure design. I think there is still plenty of room for a good new starter set, but I like this content for the DMG.
• The Lore Glossary is a great inclusion. While I could see it being a little lacking in context for new DMs, I think it will only grow more useful as a reference for DMs who play in official WotC settings and campaigns. There is a lot of great quick info here (even if most of it is also just a quick web search away as well), having it all assembled in one place that I can quickly flip to if I'm not online is very useful. It gives me a lot of hope for what future books can bring, especially anything that handles setting info.
• The tracking sheets are really nice! I'm not sure how much use the official ones in the book will get from me, but I think what they present in general is very useful, and like much of the book, is inspiring me to think (this is what this DMG does best) about how I want to create useful tracking sheets specific to my games.
• The book does some nice things, like taking the time to explain what each of the three pillars is and how to run them (social interaction, exploration, combat). These sections pretty clearly define the intentions of the D&D design team around the game pillars, and provide a lot of framework and rules around each. It isn't as in depth as some other supplements I've seen (I would also argue it doesn't need to be, those supplements are definitely creating alternative systems to core rules), but it is solid and provides clear distinction about how the game plays each of the pillars.
• I hope the monster info is repeated in the Monster Manual, and hopefully expanded on. I'd prefer not to have to flip to the DMG for the encounter math, and would like to see more info on creature creation.

An example of some of my favorite writing in the book, that is incredibly needed information but isn't something I'll reference every day (but will include at every session 0):

Rules Aren’t Physics. The rules of the game are meant to provide a fun game experience, not to describe the laws of physics in the worlds of D&D, let alone the real world. Don’t let players argue that a bucket brigade of ordinary people can accelerate a spear to light speed by all using the Ready action to pass the spear to the next person in line. The Ready action facilitates heroic action; it doesn’t define the physical limitations of what can happen in a 6-second combat round.

The Game Is Not an Economy. The rules of the game aren’t intended to model a realistic economy, and players who look for loopholes that let them generate infinite wealth using combinations of spells are exploiting the rules.

Combat Is for Enemies. Some rules apply only during combat or while a character is acting in Initiative order. Don’t let players attack each other or helpless creatures to activate those rules.

Rules Rely on Good-Faith Interpretation. The rules assume that everyone reading and interpreting the rules has the interests of the group’s fun at heart and is reading the rules in that light.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Well I agree that criticisms should be focused. I think a one of comment saying "I wouldn't use that" is no big deal. I think we've already beaten this horse badly in my opinion.

And I do think when I criticize 5e, when I do, I do target something specific. I don't know that I criticize it all that much as I don't know whether it is 5e or not when someone states something and I challenge it. I'm mostly just challenging what some people say and giving a different perspective.

Agreed. And for all I may disagree with just about everything you favour in D&D and think that it's a good thing that that mode of play was left largely in the 80s (when computers were starting to lever their advantage that way) as far as I can recall I've never thought your opinions weren't adding something to the conversation.

And for the record I can be scathing about 5e as well. A big part of how is because of how lukewarm it is; it's a compromise edition with almost all the rough edges filed off.

I think the real analogy would be a person who is a long term NFL fan from the 70's who is asked what he thinks of the new kickoff rules. He's not seen them "in play" but he might still have an opinion having just read the rule. That is what is happening here.

There's a huge flaw in your analogy. No one asked him to join the conversation - and given that it's an open conversation he as far as I can tell isn't adding anything insightful. His first three comments in this thread all boil down to his saying "without having read the book I know I don't like it" without giving any specifics about why.

But I think I should bow out of this tangent.

 

[Neonchameleon]

• The Greyhawk info is interesting, but I don't run games in Greyhawk (or plan to), so not the most useful for me. That said, it is presented well, and I think does a good job of covering the setting in an approachable way.
• ...
• The Creating Adventures section with several example adventures does a good job of tying to the Greyhawk content, and also presents a clear way for DMs to think about creating adventures. I like that the example adventures are much more stripped back than other adventure books or anthologies, providing more of a simple structure on how to think of adventure design. I think there is still plenty of room for a good new starter set, but I like this content for the DMG.

I doubt many will run in Greyhawk, but some will. And what I consider it to be is a "worked example" of a homebrew setting and tying adventures to your setting.

 

[Parmandur]

The Lore Glossary is a great inclusion. While I could see it being a little lacking in context for new DMs, I think it will only grow more useful as a reference for DMs who play in official WotC settings and campaigns. There is a lot of great quick info here (even if most of it is also just a quick web search away as well), having it all assembled in one place that I can quickly flip to if I'm not online is very useful. It gives me a lot of hope for what future books can bring, especially anything that handles setting info.

I agree with all of your takes I'm hour poat. What I find interesting about the Lore Glossary specifically, is how a few years back Chris Perkins laud out how the Core books are what WotC uses to hold their "IP partners" like novelists and filmmakers to "Canon". So while this stuff is easily Google able to find old info...this iteration of info is what will lie referenced in any future D&D media, this is the "Woeld Bible" for lore "facts".

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't pay much attention to reviews, whether it's Amazon, RPGs, movie reviews, etc. because they are mostly subjective opinions. I prefer to make my own decision. Only time I put any stock in a review is if I'm looking for something with a specific feature, and a review says it either has it or it doesn't or doesn't work as intended, or the product breaks frequently. I think it's completely valid to base your decision on purchasing something, seeing a movie based on a review if it works for you.

The reviews and info I've read about the 5.5 DMG basically do say it has or doesn't have features, so I feel comfortable using that info to decide for or against purchase.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's become a fun game for me to guess how many posts into a 5e thread will pass before the one of the same three people who have repeatedly stated that they don't play 5e, haven't read the books and have no plans to do so will pop in to say how much it sucks.

Again, don't play D&D 5e. I play 5e games all the time.