D&D (2024) The Lackluster Ranger

[ezo]

1. Rogue would get Expertise
2. Ranger would get chooseable features that let them ignore checks like Climb/Swim Speed for Athletics or Auto-forage and Auto-Track for Survival
3. Bard gets JOAT and can Inspire themselves.

Yep, stuff like this is better IMO, too. FYI we have always allowed Bards to use Inspiration on themselves, and we made it a reaction or bonus action, so you don't have to give it ahead of time. Works well and makes it more useful IME.

 

[Ashrym]

Bard gets JOAT and can Inspire themselves.

Inspiring themselves is better than expertise (because it can be applied to far more skills or types of checks) and the lore bards need a new 14th level ability. Expertise instead keeps more simple and restricts the benefits to a few skills.

RIP bards, it must be so hard being a fullcaster and not getting expertise, you still get jack of all trades

The problem is bards need to have some appeal over a full caster to be worth playing. That appeal comes from:

• spell versatility
• bardic inspiration
• skill benefits

Spell versality is very limited because of the preparation mechanic bards use and the fact magical secrets doesn't exist until the third tier of play. That forces the player to be selective in spells prepared. If they're focusing on cleric spells it's better to be a cleric. If they're focusing on druid spells it's better to be a druid. If they're focusing on wizard spells it's better to be a wizard. There's no significant value that a bard has in casting spells that other spellcasters can already cast just as well or better, especially when bonus spells prepared favor other spell casters more and the relevant casters can all swap them out on a long rest.

Bardic inspiration can be useful but it's a class feature like wild shape, or channel divinity, or arcane recovery and ritual adept, or font of magic and metamagic, or invocations. As an alternative class feature bardic inspiration cannot compensate for the limited spell prep compared to most full casters when they also have their own class features. Most class features on other full casters are more appealing than bardic inspiration.

That brings us to skill benefits. The only skill benefits are a bonus proficiency, expertise, and jack of all trades. Jack of all trades is a minor benefit (usually in skills the PC isn't focusing), another skill proficiency is minor (further marginalized by jack of all trades), and you would remove expertise. Clerics have the thaumaturge option. Druids have the magician option. Wizards also have expertise. Bard expertise is better but in removing it the skill based spellcaster loses out comparatively to other spellcasters further. That's not useful.

Expertise is also the modern replacement for the classic bardic knowledge / lore abilities. A traditional bard in 5e terms should be taking expertise in arcana and history, but choice of skills expands on bard archetypes. Removing it should also be replacing it with a bardic knowledge ability in some relevant form.

When someone says "because full caster" in reference to a bard it's the equivalent of grouping rogues with barbarians, fighters, and paladins "because martial" as equivalent then claiming rogues don't need expertise as a full martial because martials are good at soaking up and dealing damage. Statements like that ignore the differences in those classes and context behind those differences. Which is a bit ironic in a thread about rangers.

Expertise is a more restrictive solution than self-inspiration, maintains a method for the classic bardic knowledge or other archetypes, and helps give a reason to play bards over other spell casters in the first place. It's in the right place on bards.

 

[Horwath]

1. Rogue would get Expertise

everyone should be able to get expertise, it's not really that special of an ability.
Rogues should get most by default, followed by ranger, followed by bard(bard in 3rd place because of being full caster and having inspiration)
rest could get one instance of it or just be limited to get it via feat.

1. Ranger would get chooseable features that let them ignore checks like Climb/Swim Speed for Athletics or Auto-forage and Auto-Track for Survival

this was so ill received that favored terrain/enemy was the worst ability in whole 5E.
No one likes auto-success(or mostly no one) and no one likes abilities that are 100% dependent on " DM charity"

1. Bard gets JOAT and can Inspire themselves.

sure, but few instances of expertise really describes few things specific bard is really good at it.

Off-topic.

Feats: should really be decoupled from class progression and be put into character level progression, and removed from joint ASI pool.
since all feats are now half feats, just have a feat slot every 2 levels. and max 4 of those feats can be used for +1 ASI
and since everyone learn something, add bonus proficiency at levels 3,5,7 and 9
proficiency is: +1 skill or +4 tools, languages or weapons
at levels 11,13,15,17 and 19 you get +1 expertise as it those levels everyone should expert at some skills.

 

[Minigiant]

this was so ill received that favored terrain/enemy was the worst ability in whole 5E.
No one likes auto-success(or mostly no one) and no one likes abilities that are 100% dependent on " DM charity"

I believe WOTC did it wrong

Thanks to your travels, you are particularly familiar with types of natural environment and are adept at traveling and surviving in such regions. Choose two type of favored terrain: arctic, coast, desert, forest, grassland, mountain, swamp, or the Underdark. You gain a benefit according to the terrain you choose.

• Arctic
• City: Choose one of your skill proficiencies with which you lack Expertise. You gain Expertise in that skill.
• Coast: You gain a Swim speed equal to your Speed and are proficient in Athletics. If you already proficient in or ever become proficient in Athletics, you can add your Wisdom modifier to Athletics checks.
• Desert: Whenever you finish a Short Rest, your Exhaustion level, if any, decreases by 1.
• Forest: You forage for twice as much food and water and are proficient in Stealth. If you already proficient in or ever become proficient in Athletics, you can add your Wisdom modifier to Stealth checks.
• Grassland: Your Speed increases by 10 feet and are proficient in Perception. If you already proficient in or ever become proficient in Perception, you can add your Wisdom modifier to Perception checks.
• Mountain: You gain a Climb speed equal to your Speed and are proficient in Athletics. If you already proficient in or ever become proficient in Athletics, you can add your Wisdom modifier to Athletics checks.
• Swamp
• the Underdark

Whenever you take a long rest or cast the Commune with Nature spell while in natural terrain, you may switch one of your favored terrains to the one you are currently in.

 

[Minigiant]

Feats: should really be decoupled from class progression and be put into character level progression, and removed from joint ASI pool.
since all feats are now half feats, just have a feat slot every 2 levels. and max 4 of those feats can be used for +1 ASI
and since everyone learn something, add bonus proficiency at levels 3,5,7 and 9
proficiency is: +1 skill or +4 tools, languages or weapons
at levels 11,13,15,17 and 19 you get +1 expertise as it those levels everyone should expert at some skills.

Not in current 5e.

Current ASI and Feats are one of the top bonuses going single class has.

You'd have to rejigger classes to give them a new reason to monoclass.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I believe WOTC did it wrong

Thanks to your travels, you are particularly familiar with types of natural environment and are adept at traveling and surviving in such regions. Choose two type of favored terrain: arctic, coast, desert, forest, grassland, mountain, swamp, or the Underdark. You gain a benefit according to the terrain you choose.

• Arctic
• City: Choose one of your skill proficiencies with which you lack Expertise. You gain Expertise in that skill.
• Coast: You gain a Swim speed equal to your Speed and are proficient in Athletics. If you already proficient in or ever become proficient in Athletics, you can add your Wisdom modifier to Athletics checks.
• Desert: Whenever you finish a Short Rest, your Exhaustion level, if any, decreases by 1.
• Forest: You forage for twice as much food and water and are proficient in Stealth. If you already proficient in or ever become proficient in Athletics, you can add your Wisdom modifier to Stealth checks.
• Grassland: Your Speed increases by 10 feet and are proficient in Perception. If you already proficient in or ever become proficient in Perception, you can add your Wisdom modifier to Perception checks.
• Mountain: You gain a Climb speed equal to your Speed and are proficient in Athletics. If you already proficient in or ever become proficient in Athletics, you can add your Wisdom modifier to Athletics checks.
• Swamp
• the Underdark

Whenever you take a long rest or cast the Commune with Nature spell while in natural terrain, you may switch one of your favored terrains to the one you are currently in.

i like the idea of permanent bonuses decided by your favoured terrain though personally i wouldn't be inclined to let it be swappable, or at least not on a long rest, feels a little fickle IMO for someone meant to be master of the land constantly picking up and dropping different bonuses.

 

[Ashrym]

I'm not sure why permanent bonuses based on favored terrain isn't a thing. It's thematic and I 've seen it suggested often.

 

[Minigiant]

i like the idea of permanent bonuses decided by your favoured terrain though personally i wouldn't be inclined to let it be swappable, or at least not on a long rest, feels a little fickle IMO for someone meant to be master of the land constantly picking up and dropping different bonuses.

My preference would be that it takes 3 long rests or high level magic to swap terrains.

And you have to be in the terrain.

A ranger travelling to the artic and telling the party "See you in 3 days. TTFN." and walking off into the snow to come back intune with the area feels very rangery.

Sleeping in the inn? No.

 

[Corinnguard]

I'm not sure why permanent bonuses based on favored terrain isn't a thing. It's thematic and I 've seen it suggested often.

It could be because Favored Terrain is situational in nature. If you and your party were adventuring in your Favored Terrain, then you would definitely benefit from the feature. But if you aren't, then you are kind of out of luck. So, you would have to ask the DM about what kind of terrain is commonly found within the adventure and work it from there.

Isn't it more likely that a Ranger is going to be ranging through more than one terrain, in and out of an adventure? I think this is where Deft Explorer would more useful than Favored Terrain. As its' benefits don't end the moment you step outside your Favored Terrain.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I'm not sure why permanent bonuses based on favored terrain isn't a thing. It's thematic and I 've seen it suggested often.

because they instead decided on impermanent bonuses that were not based on your favoured terrain, just active while you were in it

which from a certain point of view is a design that's not all that dissimilar, just one that is far far less useful.