CreamCloud0
Hero
this thread premise is entirely false, rangers have little reason to invest in INT and don't get proficiency in arithmetics either, they're in fact quite terrible with numbers! 

i think my biggest issue with the free HM uses is that it never provided any other options for those slots to be assigned to for people who prefer other focuses, it just goes all in on HM rather than letting you pick from say, cure wounds, ensnaring strike, hail of thorns, hunter's mark and jump.A slot I can only use for one thing isn't really a slot. It's a use, of that one thing.
I think it was for simplicity's sake. And to anti-noob trap. And to have Relentless Hunter and Precise Hunter be easier to write. And to make Hunter and Beast Master simpleri think my biggest issue with the free HM uses is that it never provided any other options for those slots to be assigned to for people who prefer other focuses, it just goes all in on HM rather than letting you pick from say, cure wounds, ensnaring strike, hail of thorns, hunter's mark and jump.
Some alternative to HM;I think it was for simplicity's sake. And to anti-noob trap. And to have Relentless Hunter and Precise Hunter be easier to write. And to make Hunter and Beast Master simpler
However I would have liked the option to choose between beast bond (beast), foe bane (germ), hail of thorns (plant), or hunter's mark (spirit).
"Level 1: Favored Enemy
You always have the Beast bond, Foe Bane, Hail of Thorns or Hunter’s Mark spell prepared. You can cast the chosen spell twice without expending a spell slot, and you regain all expended uses of this ability when you finish a Long Rest.
The number of times you can cast the spell without a spell slot increases when you reach certain Ranger levels.
Level 13: Relentless Hunter
Taking damage can’t break your Concentration on
your chosen spell from Favored Enemy.
Level 17: Precise Hunter
You have Advantage on attack rolls against the creature currently marked by your chosen spell* from Favored Enemy.
.
Getting a heal spell off a class feature called Favored Enemy would be silly. "I hate giants so much, I learned to heal myself"
Overall I think the issue is WOTC was so scared by the "cries for backwards compatibility", they didn't want to introduce anything new or altering to the gameplay loop.
* Beast Bond would have to change.
I still think one of hunter's mark or swift quiver should lose concentration at level 20 latest.I think it would be helpful to look at the combat spells available to the Ranger and compare it to the Paladin.
For 1st level you have the following:
Paladin: Divine Favor, Divine Smite, Searing Smite, Thunderous Smite and Wrathful Smite
So a few flavors of Smite. Smite with fire and burn, smite with thunder and push, or smite with necrotic and fear. Those all do less than just the standard smite with radiant damage (unless the target burns with Searing Smite for a while). Divine Smite does 2d8 damage, no save, and gets +1d8 per higher spell level.
Divine Favor is a nice little buff that adds +1d4 per hit but only lasts for 1 minute (no Concentration, which is nice). That is an extra 3 DPR, or 12 damage in a four round combat. But it competes with all of the other smites for your bonus action. So you can’t cast Divine Favor and smite on the same round. Still if the combat lasts at least two rounds, it will do more damage than a regular Divine Smite which has a DPR of 5.4 for the round it is cast.
Ranger: Ensnaring Strike, Hail of Thorns, and Hunter’s Mark
The Ranger starts with Hunter’s Mark, of course. This requires Concentration, adds +1d6 to all attacks against the target for 1 hour.
Ensnaring Strike competes with Hunter’s Mark for concentration and requires the target to fail a Str saving throw. If it fails the target takes 1d6 piercing damage per round until it spends an action to attempt a Str (Athletics) check to remove it. This is good if it works, but should only be attempted against smaller targets as there is a good chance anything larger will make the save and this spell will do nothing.
Hail of Thorns, on the other hand, does 1d10 piercing damage, does not require concentration (so can be stacked with Hunter’s Mark), and still does half damage if the Dex save is successful. It does compete with Hunter’s Mark for the Bonus Action, but you probably don’t want to spend a spell slot on this every round anyway. It also does the 1d10 damage to creatures next to the target (Dex save for half). Getting +1d10 per higher level slot is also pretty good advancement.
2nd level spells:
Paladin: Find Steed, Magic Weapon
The Paladin really doesn’t have much here. They will most likely up-cast Divine Smite for 3d8 radiant damage.
Find Steed summons a Large creature that you can ride. It has an attack based on the Paladin’s spell attack bonus that does 1d8+2 damage, but if I am reading the rules right I don’t think the Paladin can use it unless he falls unconscious.
Magic Weapon is only good if you do not already have Magic Weapon, and the Ranger gets it too. So that is a wash.
Ranger: Magic Weapon, Spike Growth
Spike Growth is hard to figure out exactly how much damage it would do, but is generally considered to be “broken” if it is built around to be exploited. It competes for Concentration, so there is that, and it lasts for 10 minutes. It fills a 20' radius area with spikes that do 2d4 piercing damage for every 5’ a creature moves through the area, even if it is forced movement. So pushing creatures into the area or dragging them through it is possible. It is an awesome spell for battlefield control and damage.
3rd level spells:
Paladin: Elemental Weapon, Blinding Smite, Crusader’s Mantle
Blinding Smite is another Smite, this time doing 3d8 radiant damage (instead of 4d8 with an up-cast Divine Smite) and adds blindness. Another good single target option.
Elemental Weapon is similar to Magic weapon, but does +1 to hit and +1d4 elemental damage instead of a flat +1 damage. However, an up-cast Magic weapon would be +2 to hit and +2 damage with the same spell slot, which would be better in most cases. Ranger gets this as well and has the same problem.
Crusader’s Mantle is an upgraded Divine Favor, but doesn’t do more damage. Instead it buffs allies within 30’ so they get the +1d4 radiant damage to all of their attacks also. It also takes an Action to cast, instead of a Bonus Action, and requires Concentration.
Ranger: Conjure Animals, Conjure Barrage, Elemental Weapon, Lightning Arrow, Summon Fey
Instead of using Hunter’s Mark, the Ranger can use Conjure Animals or Summon Fey, both of which require Concentration.
Conjure Animals lasts for 10 minutes and does 3d10 slashing damage (+1d10 per spell level) to anyone that fails a Dex save in a 30’ cube that can be moved up to 30’ per round.
Summon Fey gives you a small Fey creature that can fly around and attacks for 2d6+6 force damage. AC, HP, Attack bonus, damage, and number of attacks increase according to spell level.
Conjure Barrage, as I said in my original post, does 5d8 force damage, Dex save for half, to all creatures of your choice in a 60’ cone.
Lightning Arrow does 4d8 lightning damage to your target and 2d8 lightning to anyone within 10’ of the target (Dex save for half). The only advantage here is that you can use the range of your weapon, which could be much longer range than a standard spell. These are both instantaneous and don’t compete for Concentration
4th level spells:
Paladin: Staggering Smite
One more smite spell. This one does 4d6 psychic (vs. Divine Smite 5d8) and the target makes a Wis saving throw or is stunned.
Ranger: Conjure Woodland Beings, Grasping Vine, Summon Elemental
All of these spells require Concentration, so the Ranger can only use one at a time and they can’t use Hunter’s Mark. That said, it gives the Ranger options.
Conjure Woodland Beings lasts 10 minutes, is a 10’ emanation and does 5d8 force damage (Wis save for Half). There is some cheese where you can do this damage multiple times per round (some of which would not fly in my games, but that is for another post), but even without that, it is pretty good damage.
Grasping Vine allows you to choose a spot where a vine sprouts from and can do 4d8 bludgeoning damage with a spell attack. It is a bonus action to cast and a bonus action to have it attack again on subsequent rounds, which conflicts with the Beast Strike attack, so probably not worth it.
Summon Elemental is similar to Summon Fey, but you get a medium elemental. It attacks with your spell bonus and does 1d10+8 damage (damage type depends on the elemental summoned) twice per round. Summon Fey would do 2d6+7 damage twice per round at this level, so it might be better to just up-cast that.
5th level spells:
Paladin: Banishing Smite, Destructive Wave, Summon Celestial
Starting with the last smite, Banishing Smite does 5d10 force damage (up-cast Divine Smite would do 6d8) and if it reduces the target to 50 HP or less it must make a Cha save or be banished for 1 minute. Then it comes back exactly like it was when it left.
Destructive Wave. Finally an AoE spell! It does 5d6 thunder, 5d6 radiant or necrotic damage and knocks prone creatures of your choice 30’ around you (Con save for half and not prone). It takes an action, but is worth it if you can hit enough enemies.
Summon Celestial lets the Paladin do what the Ranger has been doing for 8 levels already and summon a creature to help them fight. The usual spell attack to hit and attacks twice for either 2d6+7 radiant damage at range or 1d10+8 radiant damage in melee and gives 1d10 temp HP to itself or another creature within 10’.
Ranger: Conjure Volley, Steel Wind Strike, Swift Quiver
Continuing with their focus on AoE spells, Conjure Volley has a huge range (150’) and massive area (40’ radius!) and does 8d8 force damage (Dex save for half). Conjure Barrage could do 7d8 damage when up-cast, so Conjure Volley is the better choice. You can pick who you hit, just like with Conjure Barrage, so no worries about hitting friends!
Steel Wind Strike allows the Ranger to hit up to 5 targets in a 30’ radius around them with a melee spell attack doing 6d10 force damage each time, then teleport next to one of the targets. This takes an action, so the Ranger can set up Hunter’s Mark or have their Beast make two more attacks as a bonus action.
Swift Quiver unfortunately conflicts with both Hunter’s Mark by requiring Concentration and the Beasts attack by using a bonus action each round. Still, if needed, the Ranger could use the Attack Action, attack once with a bow, allow their companion to attack twice by giving up their second attack and attack twice more with their bow as a Bonus Action, but they are giving up 4d6 from Hunter’s Mark to do it.
Nice post, thanks for it, Lord Twig.I have been wanting to put this out there for a while. I keep hearing that the Ranger isn’t very good. Usually the complaint revolves around the amount of single-target damage they do. People do seem to accept that the Ranger brings other things to the table, utility, crowd control, and AOE damage, but that is then followed by saying that it still doesn’t make up for it’s low damage.
Probably the most well known examples are the builds by Treantmonk, but for some reason, unlike the other classes, he did not pair the highest damage weapon style with the highest damage subclass. He did two-weapon fighting, but paired it with the Fey Wanderer, then he did a ranged build and paired it with the Beast Master. The obvious build to me is to pair two-weapon fighting with the Beast Master subclass. Sure enough, when I ran the numbers, following his format, I improved on his numbers significantly.
I haven’t tried with a greatsword build. That might be even higher. Maybe another time.
Anyway, when I compared my Beast Master with Treantmonk’s Fey Wanderer, here is what I found:
Starting build:
Str 8, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 10
Background: Guide (+2 Dex, +1 Wis, Magic Initiate: Druid)
Shortsword (Vex), Scimitar (Nick)
Hunter’s Mark is used at every level.
Level one and two were no different of course. The ranger closes, casts Hunter’s Mark as a bonus action and attacks with shortsword, then scimitar. At second level we both pick up the Two-Weapon Fighting style feat.
1: BM: 12.1 vs. FW: 12.1
2: BM: 14.3 vs. FW: 14.3
Level three I get a primal companion (I used the Beast of the Land) and the Fey Wanderer adds Dreadful Strikes. The first round the Beast Master casts or places Hunter’s Mark and attacks. The second round the Beast Master commands the companion to close and attack as a bonus action. I assume that the primal companion can move 20’ in a straight line towards an enemy at least once per combat to get the +1d6 damage. They also knock the target prone if they are larger or smaller, which could give the Beast Master advantage, but I don’t figure that into the damage.
3: BM, round 1: 14.3, round 2-4: 19.9 = 18.5 vs. FW: 16.7
Level four I add +1 Dex and +1 Wis and he adds Defensive Duelist (which is a good feat).
4: BM, round 1: 15.6, round 2-4: 21.7 = 20.2 vs. FW: 18
Level five we both get extra attack and second level spells. By now the Rangers should have a couple of 1st level spells free to cast Cure Wounds, Jump, Longstrider, or whatever. They have a ton of really good 2nd level spells including Lesser Restoration, Magic Weapon, Pass without Trace, Silence, Spike Growth. They can also cast Aid or Barkskin to improve their defense.
For the first round of combat the Beast Master will cast Hunter’s Mark as a bonus action, both the Beast Master and companion will close, the Beast Master will use the Attack action and give the first attack to the companion. If the companion hits it will do an extra d6 and knock the target prone to give the Beast Master advantage on their shortsword attack, then finish off with the Nick attack from the scimitar. The following rounds the Beast Master will use their bonus action to command the companion to attack.
5: BM, round 1: 25.2, round 2-4: 30.1 = 28.9 vs. FW: 27.3
6: BM, round 1: 25.2, round 2-4: 30.1 = 28.9 vs. FW: 27.3
At level seven many people ignore a very important benefit of the Beast Master: Exceptional Training. This allows the Companion to take the Dash, Disengage, Dodge or Help action as a bonus action (when the Beast Master uses a bonus action to command it). This means that the Companion can give the Beast Master advantage on their first attack on all rounds they don’t use to place Hunter’s Mark.
7: BM, round 1: 25.2, round 2-4: 34.2 = 32 vs. FW: 27.3
At level eight we both add +2 Dex and the companion damage slips a little as its attack bonus doesn’t keep up.
8: BM, round 1: 28.1, round 2-4: 36.4 = 34.3 vs. FW: 29.6
Level nine gets fun. Third level spells come online and opening with Conjure Barrage is an excellent choice. This is ignored by Treantmonk because he is so focused on single target damage. But a bunch of damage to a lot of enemies can drastically speed up the fight. It should not be ignored.
So the Beast Master can continue to charge in casting Hunter’s Mark and attacking as usual or, if there are three or more opponents that they can get in the spell effect, they can start off with Conjure Barrage as an action, Hunter’s Mark as a bonus action (without using a spell slot), then charge in on round two. At 16.9 DPR per target, it gets big fast. 33.8 vs. two targets, 50.7 vs. three targets, 67.6 vs. four targets, etc. The Fey Wanderer could theoretically start casting Summon Fey, but he waits until level 11 so he can cast it without concentration and keep using Hunter’s Mark.
I’ll only run the numbers once for Conjure Barrage, but I will note when the damage for it goes up. It is hard to say exactly how often you will run into multiple enemies or how many there will be, but there will definitely be many times when it comes up in a game. This is one of the problems with “White Room” comparisons.
9: BM, round 1 Conjure Barrage: 67.6 (4 targets); BM round 2-4: 37.1 = 44.7 vs. FW: 29.6
9: BM, round 1: 28.1, round 2-4: 36.4 = 34.3 vs. FW: 29.6
10: BM, round 1 Conjure Barrage: 67.6 (4 targets); BM round 2-4: 37.1 = 44.7 vs. FW: 29.6
10: BM, round 1: 28.1, round 2-4: 36.4 = 34.3 vs. FW: 29.6
Level 11 is another fun level. The Beast Master gets Beastial Fury and the Fey Wanderer gets a minor boost to Dreadful Stikes and Fey Reinforcements.
11: BM, round 1: 37.8, round 2-4: 44.6 = 42.9 vs. FW: 33.5
Level 12 I boost the Beast Master Wisdom to 18 and the Fey Wanderer gets Warcaster. This boosts the Primal Companion attacks and the Beast Master’s spell DC. I’m not worried about losing concentration as the Ranger can now cast Hunter’s Mark so many times it hardly matters.
BM Conjure Barrage: 17.5/target
12: BM, round 1: 38.3, round 2-4: 46.9 = 44.8 vs. FW: 33.5
Level 13 both Rangers can no longer lose concentration on Hunter’s Mark and the Fey Wanderer starts casting Summon Fey using a 4th level slot. I think it is important to point out that the Beast Master is now not using any spell slots for their average DPS. If they use spell slots for an up-cast Conjure Barrage that is just extra DPS.
BM Conjure Barrage: 17.5 or 21/target
13: BM, round 1: 38.3, round 2-4: 46.9 = 44.8 vs. FW: 35.6
At level 14 the Fey Wanderer starts using Nature’s Veil to turn invisible. As it takes a bonus action, I ignore it for the Beast Master.
14: BM, round 1: 38.3, round 2-4: 46.9 = 44.8 vs. FW: 37.3
15: BM, round 1: 38.3, round 2-4: 46.9 = 44.8 vs. FW: 39.3
At level 16 I max the Beast Master’s Wisdom and Treantmonk takes Shadow Touched to get Wisdom to 18 and pick up Wrathful Smite.
16: BM, round 1: 43.2, round 2-4: 48.8 = 47.4 vs. FW: 42.9
Level 17th gives us Precise Hunter, so the Primal Companion can stop using the Help action and will just Dodge as a bonus action. They also both get 5th level spells and the Fey Wanderer, finally surpasses the Beast Master (who is using essentially free resources) by using all of their 5th and 4th level spell slots, plus a bunch more to cast Wrathful Smite. If the Beast Master opens up with a few Conjure Barrage spells and hits even a handful of enemies their DPS will shoot way above what the Fey Wanderer is doing.
BM Conjure Barrage: 17.5 or 21 or 25.2/target
17: BM, round 1: 43.6, round 2-4: 49.8 = 48.3 vs. FW: 50.2
18: BM, round 1: 43.6, round 2-4: 49.8 = 48.3 vs. FW: 50.2
At 19th level we both take the Epic Boon of Irresistible Offense.
19: BM, round 1: 44.6, round 2-4: 51.3 = 49.6 vs. FW: 54.9
Level 20 gives us Foe Slayer.
20: BM, round 1: 50.1, round 2-4: 58.8 = 56.6 vs. FW: 59.2
And there we have it. The Beast Master falls a little behind at tier 4, but not by much, and it is much stronger in tiers 2 and 3, where most of your game time will be. Add in the much better AOE damage the Ranger can do compared to the other classes, and there is no reason to believe that the Ranger is weak. This is even before factoring in the utility factor that their spells provide.
HM is a great feature at 1st level.I think Hunter's Mark is a great class feature.
Yes, I think there are a few Ranger builds that could work well. Honestly the build that Treantmonk did for the Beast Master Ranger, longbow and a Beast of the Sky would actaully work pretty well in a game. You are just more likely to be able to make a ranged attack every single round while melee builds could miss an entire round of attacks getting to their target.Nice post, thanks for it, Lord Twig.
I was so overwhelmed with knee-jerk negative reaction to the 2024 Ranger a few months ago, I figured they dropped the ball on it. But then I started looking at how, when combined with Weapon Mastery, very interesting (and iconic) builds work well with the class, without one necessarily being forced to do the build in that way (e.g. Dual Wielder with a Mastery in a weapon with the Nick property; perhaps also taking Two-Weapon Fighting), I became intrigued by its subtlety. Then, when I looked at all the spells to which the Ranger has access that do not require concentration, the kerfuffle over Hunter's Mark began to signify much less than it did at the beginning.
I think Hunter's Mark is a great class feature. When I saw how DnD Builds created a 2024 version of Batman using the Ranger, I further became intrigued ().
It's a fun class!