D&D General “‘Scantily Clad and Well Proportioned’: Sexism and Gender Stereotyping in the Gaming Worlds of TSR and Dungeons & Dragons.”

[Mannahnin]

NGL, there’s something very nostalgic to me about fantasy art of bare-legged heroes and heroines. This one’s clearly intentional choice to display a lack of underwear makes it weird, but if that loincloth was wider, I’d be more inclined to file this under “aspirational” than “sexual object.” Not to say the lack of pants isn’t weird, but it’s such a specific vibe. A lot of fantasy characters of all genders were out there Donald Ducking it in the 70s and 80s and it’s kind of hilarious to me.

Honestly, whats so confusing about it is the contrast between top and bottom. If she had on just a bikini top, or even a cleavage revealing shirt I probably wouldn't of thought anything about it. Though, the nicely detailed breastplate is just baffling with the no pants look.

That's the thing- loin cloths in sword and sorcery art are TOTALLY a thing, and certainly were back in the 80s when I first saw this art. My folks had at least one Boris Vallejo calendar, too.

But even as a hormonal teenager I looked at the way Clyde had done this particular piece and felt a bit uncomfortable. "He REALLY went out of his way to make sure that we saw all the way above her hip bones and painted the tan lines from her missing bikini bottom so we'd know it was missing?!"

 

[Crimson Longinus]

NGL, there’s something very nostalgic to me about fantasy art of bare-legged heroes and heroines. This one’s clearly intentional choice to display a lack of underwear makes it weird, but if that loincloth was wider, I’d be more inclined to file this under “aspirational” than “sexual object.” Not to say the lack of pants isn’t weird, but it’s such a specific vibe. A lot of fantasy characters of all genders were out there Donald Ducking it in the 70s and 80s and it’s kind of hilarious to me.

I think loincloths and such are perfectly fine for evoking more antiquity (or earlier) rather than medieval vibes, to create sort of sword & sorcery look. Though it is a bit weird if rest of the get-up doesn't match, I don't think it quite does here, the armour is almost non-era-specific enough to work, but the quite modern heeled boots feel off.

But I will definitely not shame anyone for loincloth wearing, as it is quite common attire on my setting Artra and closest to trousers anyone has is some sort of a dhoti.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I suspect that in the 80s a lot of these images tended to use models in leotards as references.

It was the age of Spencers Gifts and neon malls

 

[Charlaquin]

Oh wow, I didn't know that was the case. So what are the PHB 2024 races?

Not sure if this got answered already since I’m still a few pages behind, but it’s Aasimar, Dragonborn, Dwarf, Elf, Goliath, Gnome, Halfling, Human, Orc, Tiefling

 

[Staffan]

That sounds plausible. My theory was the RPGs have moved more into character power fantasies and away from group challenge experiences in general.

I think another part is that most non-monster illustrations in older books were general mood pieces (particularly the big splashy ones), while 3e onwards generally make illustrations more, well, illustrative to the text. So next to the description of the Use Magic Item skill is a picture of Lidda with a wand whose end got all scorched off because she rolled a 0. And since the picture is supposed to be illustrative of that one thing, you don't need a bunch of background stuff – that's just a distraction.

Yeah, thankfully in 2024 half-orcs are just gone along with half-elves.

I'm sort of split on this, which I guess is appropriate. I get why they did it, but it does cause problems for Eberron – particularly the lack of half-elves. In Eberron, half-elves are rarely the direct result of elves and humans getting it on, but rather of half-elves getting it on with other half-elves. They form their own communities, and have their own term for themselves, Khoravar (named so because elves originate on the continent of Xen'drik and humans on Sarlona, and them meeting on Khorvaire resulted in half-elves). Two of the dragon-marked houses consist of half-elves, and I don't think making those houses full elves would fit the lore, and while it could work to make them "elf-blooded humans" humans already have like 4.5 of the 12 marks, and giving them the half-elf ones would give them more than half of all available ones.

I think half-orcs would be less of a loss. While Eberron doesn't do the sexual assault angle of half-orcs (instead usually making them the result of intermingling of orc and human tribes over in the Shadow Marches), leading to tribes that are mostly half-orc with occasional pure-blood humans and/or orcs), the half-orc treatment seems more "Well, we should do something new with them, and stay away from the SA trope, so I guess this is it." The Eberron half-orc doesn't really provide anything you couldn't do by just making them full orcs and letting orcs be the only ones who get the Mark of Finding (in canon it's half-orcs and humans who have it).

 

[Demetrios1453]

But have they actually retconned some existing mixed-species characters to be mono-species? Because if they're doing that, I think the concept might be gone for good.

The picture of Tanis in the DMG shows him with both beard and pointed ears.

 

[Charlaquin]

Perhaps I missed something in this conversation. Is that something you would want to use "background" to rules-model? I would think that it would be something that you would just declare your character to be, and pick something else as a background.

But if I try to answer your question: Stat Bonusses, when it comes to background, tend to be based around the sorts of things that a background would teach. The kind of vigorous "exercise" that you would have gone through during your time coming up as that background. Being cis, I wouldn't presume to know what that would entail for a "trans-woman" background (and again, I'm not sure that I'd use "background" to model the trans experience in a game - it seems like an odd fit to me).

But if you don't mind a somewhat tongue-in-cheek answer to your direct question, I'd say: CON (for your handling of the 'slings and arrows'), WIS (for figuring out who you are), and CHA (for the confidence and strength of character that comes, and was needed, to transition.)

Note: If any of the above is wrong, please forgive me. I'd like to consider myself an Ally, but I admit that I have much to learn.

If one were to model being trans as a background (and I agree that’s probably not the best way to do it, at least not the way 5e 2024 handles backgrounds), I definitely agree with Wis and Cha; self-awareness and communication are skills I think the vast majority of us end up developing. Con… is a stretch, but it works better than Str, Dex, or Int IMO. Throw in a background Feat about being able to disguise your voice and that’d resonate as well as a 2024 background could be expected to for me. Though, there’s some baggage around the idea of “disguising,” so maybe frame it in terms of imitating voices.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

wait who did they retcon?

Daran Edermath from Lost Mine of Phandelver is the one I noticed. In Phandelver and Below he was switched from being a half-elf to a drow. Apparently a half-orc also got retconned into an orc in something else recently, but I'm unsure of what that's in.

 

[Remathilis]

The picture of Tanis in the DMG shows him with both beard and pointed ears.

I'm the Lore Glossary, he's still named Tanis Half-Elven. Not much else is described about him but that's true of all the Heroes of the Lance in that paragraph.

 

[Charlaquin]

I've said this before, but I really think tieflings should remain as the "mistrusted outsiders" choice. That's like the big part of their appeal, and if you cannot play that trope as a literal devil spawn, then I feel things have gone a bit wrong.

I mean, that’s a huge part of where the stereotype of LGBTQ folks loving Tieflings comes from. Rainbow-colored people who get shunned and persecuted as “children of the devil” because of factors they were born with and have no control over? It’s like they were engineered in a lab to appeal to queer gamers.