D&D (2024) DMG 2024: The Planes

[Micah Sweet]

I think it's because WotC has been pushing the idea of an interconnected multiverse as the "default setting" since 2014, so that there's an excuse for DMs to use elements from different published settings in whatever setting they use for their games. So, they provide detail for the multiverse. Why this much detail, I dunno.

This actually makes the most sense to me. It is essentially marketing. The adventures they are so intent on supporting so folks continue to buy them often have planar connections, even if much of the action takes place on the material plane.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm someone who doesn't really care about the Planes, so including so much is odd.
When players ask me about Planar structure or somesuch my eyes glaze over.

It's odd to you that the DMG would include a good amount of material that you personally don't care about? Why would that be odd? It certainly includes a good amount I don't care about, but I don't find that odd.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yes. I mean, we got Avernus at 5th level with DiA, and we got Spelljammer at level 1 as well. So, the groundwork has been laid + examples have been established.

I still have a hard time seeing Spelljammer as a planar game. The Astral thing never sat well with me. I still think wildspace and the Astral should be separate.

 

[Remathilis]

One thing that legitimately surprised me about the 2024 DMG was the chapter on the Planes. It spends nearly 40 pages on the Planes -- a "setting" traditionally reserved for high level play that is also the part of the D&D "multiverse" most likely to be modified or ignored in D&D's own setting (Eberron, Dragonlance). By contrast, they spend less than 30 pages on Greyhawk and a whopping 3 pages on Dungeons. the discussion of all the myriad worlds of D&D is a single chart.

Why do you think they decided to invest so many pages in the Planes? Does it signal a near term focus on the Planes for adventures and supplements? Will we be seeing more Planescape products or a big planar adventure? Is that something you would like to see? For that matter, are you happy with the large investment of pages on the Planes in the 2024 DMG?

While I don't mind planar information being present in the DMG, or even taking up a decent chunk of real estate, I am less enthused at how little space was given to dungeons and dungeon adventures (and sandbox campaigns, as i mentioned in another thread). I don't think planar adventures are common, and I think it is effectively wasted space for a lot of groups.

But what are your thought?

The planes are the shared backdrop of the D&D multiverse. It's where a lot of important monsters (celestials, fiends, Elementals and fey) come from. Three campaigns require them (Planescape, Spelljammer and Ravenloft). A lot of important multi-campaign baddies (like Orcus, Lolth and Tiamat) live there. And many of the D&D APs involve the planes either directly (Descent into Avenus, Wild Beyond the Witchlight) or indirectly (Princes of the Apocalypse, Tales from the Infinite Staircase).

And the page count is about on par with the 2014 DMG to boot.

I know your status on teh loer when it comes to core books, but the planes are a huge part of the shared D&D lore. As adventuring sites or as home for many threats to the players and their home wolds. And like the lore glossary, it allows WotC to say "the cultists are preparing a ritual to open a gate to Avenus and summon Tiamat" without having to explain yet again where Avenus is and who the F is Tiamat.

 

[Reynard]

The planes are the shared backdrop of the D&D multiverse. It's where a lot of important monsters (celestials, fiends, Elementals and fey) come from. Three campaigns require them (Planescape, Spelljammer and Ravenloft). A lot of important multi-campaign baddies (like Orcus, Lolth and Tiamat) live there. And many of the D&D APs involve the planes either directly (Descent into Avenus, Wild Beyond the Witchlight) or indirectly (Princes of the Apocalypse, Tales from the Infinite Staircase).

And the page count is about on par with the 2014 DMG to boot.

I know your status on teh loer when it comes to core books, but the planes are a huge part of the shared D&D lore. As adventuring sites or as home for many threats to the players and their home wolds. And like the lore glossary, it allows WotC to say "the cultists are preparing a ritual to open a gate to Avenus and summon Tiamat" without having to explain yet again where Avenus is and who the F is Tiamat.

Again, my concern is more relative: 40 on the planes and 3 on dungeons seems way out of proportion for D&D.

 

[Remathilis]

Again, my concern is more relative: 40 on the planes and 3 on dungeons seems way out of proportion for D&D.

My hot take: more DMs learn dungeoncraft by example then through tables and charts. And WotC sells plenty of examples on how a good dungeon should look.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The planes are the shared backdrop of the D&D multiverse. It's where a lot of important monsters (celestials, fiends, Elementals and fey) come from. Three campaigns require them (Planescape, Spelljammer and Ravenloft). A lot of important multi-campaign baddies (like Orcus, Lolth and Tiamat) live there. And many of the D&D APs involve the planes either directly (Descent into Avenus, Wild Beyond the Witchlight) or indirectly (Princes of the Apocalypse, Tales from the Infinite Staircase).

And the page count is about on par with the 2014 DMG to boot.

I know your status on teh loer when it comes to core books, but the planes are a huge part of the shared D&D lore. As adventuring sites or as home for many threats to the players and their home wolds. And like the lore glossary, it allows WotC to say "the cultists are preparing a ritual to open a gate to Avenus and summon Tiamat" without having to explain yet again where Avenus is and who the F is Tiamat.

Also worth noting is that the planes contain a great deal of their IP, which for marketing reasons they want front and center as much as they can manage, as outside of that IP similar experiences can be had from a great many other publishers. The lore glossary may have been added to the DMG for the same reason, although of course that's only speculation.

 

[Reynard]

My hot take: more DMs learn dungeoncraft by example then through tables and charts. And WotC sells plenty of examples on how a good dungeon should look.

Which adventures do you think have "good dungeons" in them?

I think sunless Citadel and Forge of Fury are both very good dungeons, but they are from 2 editions ago. I can't think of a memorable "good" dungeon that originated in the 5E era.

 

[Remathilis]

Also worth noting is that the planes contain a great deal of their IP, which for marketing reasons they want front and center as much as they can manage, as outside of that IP similar experiences can be had from a great many other publishers. The lore glossary may have been added to the DMG for the same reason, although of course that's only speculation.

Yup I've said before that WotC gave away the rules for free, so the one thing they can leverage for a unique experience is the Lore.

 

[Remathilis]

Which adventures do you think have "good dungeons" in them?

I think sunless Citadel and Forge of Fury are both very good dungeons, but they are from 2 editions ago. I can't think of a memorable "good" dungeon that originated in the 5E era.

Both are in Tales of the Yawning Portal. I also think Phandelver has good examples of dungeons, Undermountain is full of good examples for high level, and Tomb of Annihilation is a good example of a deathtrap dungeon. They also have several other anthology books with decent dungeons in them.