D&D 5E 2024 D&D is 2014 D&D with 4E sprinkled on top

[Hussar]

I don't think there is a "win" to be found here. There is only victory over the other half of the player base. Either way some side is unhappy with the outcome.

I didn't buy 5e primarily because they couldn't deliver me a fighter I found acceptable. Though power wasn't the issue. They put a healing surge at the base despite my getting numerous promises they'd not do that sort of thing for every class.

Yes, but, there was virtually no way 5e was going to appeal to you. You skipped 3e and 4e as well did you not? As an OSR player, there is pretty much nothing in WotC D&D for you.

 

[Emerikol]

Yes, but, there was virtually no way 5e was going to appeal to you. You skipped 3e and 4e as well did you not? As an OSR player, there is pretty much nothing in WotC D&D for you.

Actually I played 3e and 4e. I wished I'd skipped 4e and would never play it again. I could play 3e though nowadays sure I'd prefer more OSR in it.

Edit:
So I can play a lot of games. 3e is playable because at least certain major tropes are maintained. Healing, Vancian, and No Dissociative mechanics. I don't prefer 3e over other options now but when it was released I liked it.

 

[dave2008]

I didn't buy 5e primarily because they couldn't deliver me a fighter I found acceptable. Though power wasn't the issue. They put a healing surge at the base despite my getting numerous promises they'd not do that sort of thing for every class.

That is what stops you from playing a 5e fighter?! That seems like something you could fix at your table with little effort. At least less than the 24 pages of house rules we needed to play 1e back in the late 80s!

 

[dave2008]

Thats 500KG, 1100lbs. I'd have to go look at some of the longer clips on this, but I'm pretty sure he almost died from this.

I am not sure about Hall, but when "the Mountain" beat his record he had a stroke and temp. paralysis on one side of his face!

 

[TwoSix]

Trevor is a mundane fighter the way Luke is a mundane farmer.

It isn't so much that Trevor is mundane (obviously, he isn't). It's that Trevor has the kind of backstory that a D&D fighter should be representing.

This is how I think of it. Every class goes to level 20. You can quibble over the exact break points, but any character that gets into Tier 2 is capable of supernatural feats. Since class defines the bulk of a character's growth and capabilities, then supernatural ability is a necessary component of every class's kit.

If you want to skin the supernatural feats as a magical bloodline or a once-in-a-generation slayer, go for it. If you want to skin them as "strong-willed kid doesn't know when or how to quit", then you can do that too.

It's not the job of the core books to define your setting and narratives for you. D&D is a toolkit, but the PHB is not a world-building tool.

 

[dave2008]

I do think that there is a direction this could be fulfilled by, but I also think some would not necessarily accept it. Specifically, the use of "novice level" rules to stretch out lower levels as long as humanly possible. That would let folks keep their stapled-to-mundanity characters, but at the price of basically saying higher levels aren't for them, which sucks. But outside of that, I agree, I'm not sure there is a way to bridge this gap.

That is where I have been leaning for some time, but without quite as much novice level stretching as you suggest.

I have levels 0-10 being mundane, 0 being straight up mundane and 10 being "fantasy" mundane.
Then levels 11-20 are increasing degrees of supernatural/super heroic.

Also, as it stands now, I would take most if not all of the 5e fighter abilities and mush them into the first 10 levels.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It isn't so much that Trevor is mundane (obviously, he isn't). It's that Trevor has the kind of backstory that a D&D fighter should be representing.

This is how I think of it. Every class goes to level 20. You can quibble over the exact break points, but any character that gets into Tier 2 is capable of supernatural feats. Since class defines the bulk of a character's growth and capabilities, then supernatural ability is a necessary component of every class's kit.

If you want to skin the supernatural feats as a magical bloodline or a once-in-a-generation slayer, go for it. If you want to skin them as "strong-willed kid doesn't know when or how to quit", then you can do that too.

It's not the job of the core books to define your setting and narratives for you. D&D is a toolkit, but the PHB is not a world-building tool.

I would be fine with that, so long as the concept that all classes necessarily move into having a supernatural power source at some point is explicit in the text. Some examples of such for non-spellcasters would be nice too.

 

[TwoSix]

I would be fine with that, so long as the concept that all classes necessarily move into having a supernatural power source at some point is explicit in the text. Some examples of such for non-spellcasters would be nice too.

For D&D, I want the core books to do as little worldbuilding, explicit OR implicit, as possible. The specificity of the magic system is already far more world-shaping than is necessary, IMO. Examples are fine, because the core of what IS presented should be on how to mechanize recogizable fantasy tropes.

 

[Remathilis]

It's not the job of the core books to define your setting and narratives for you. D&D is a toolkit, but the PHB is not a world-building tool.

I disagree with that notion. The PHB is absolutely a world-building tool for the Worlds of D&D. The PHB puts plenty of world assertions in the game: magic comes from a variety of sources from Oath to Book to Pact. Elves come in at least three lineages. Psionics is an ability at least four classes can use. The outer planes are a thing. Plenty of stuff like that. The PHB isn't a toolkit where I can build Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter out of it. You can flavor it however you like, but it's still designed with D&Disms in mind.

And that's where part of this argument breaks down. We no longer assume that D&D magic is supposed to represent every magic system ever. It's doesn't try to replicate Jon Constantine, Gandalf, Doctor Strange and Hogwarts under the same system. D&D magic is D&D magic. But martials have to encompass everyone from John McClain to Conan to Batman to Hercules.

I say let the martials get a story and then get a source of power. Make them supernatural like every other class in the game and give them tools that are appropriate. Yes, you lose the opportunity to play Boromir, but you already lost the ability to play Gandalf long ago. Go play One Ring 5e if you want grounded martials and magic. Let fighters be super soldiers, heroic bloodlines, the heir of giants, the children of Gods, etc. I don't want John McClain anymore if the cost is the fighter never getting to be special.

 

[Micah Sweet]

For D&D, I want the core books to do as little worldbuilding, explicit OR implicit, as possible. The specificity of the magic system is already far more world-shaping than is necessary, IMO. Examples are fine, because the core of what IS presented should be on how to mechanize recogizable fantasy tropes.

I like toolkits, but explaining the need for all characters to have a supernatural power source (of whatever sort) past a certain point of advancement does not cross that line IMO.