Star Wars Rewatch

[Dioltach]

If you ask me, the real story of Anakin Skywalker is what turned him from a helpful, relatively cheerful little sprout in Phantom Menace to the creep in Attack of the Clones. And that's the story that isn't told.

The Charlie Sheen years of "Two and a Half Men" might serve as a pretty close approximation.*

* Suggestion intended for comedic purposes only.

 

[OB1]

One of these days I'm going to sit down and rewatch the sequels back to back. Enough time has passed now that I can watch it with fresh eyes.

When I did that with the prequels... Phantom Menace was certainly the best of the three to be fair, but, wow, that's a seriously low bar. Revenge of the Sith was just bad. Like jaw droppingly bad. Padme dies because... she's sad? This bad assed princess that risks her life, rules an entire planet, tops herself because of a boy? Yeah, that's just awful.

Cool fight sequences notwithstanding, the second two prequels do rank down with The Acolyte in my "Basement of Bad Star Wars".

People dying of grief is a real thing (see Carrie Fisher's mom dying a few days after she passed, and there are countless stories of spouses dying within weeks of each other).

Padme isn't sad about a boy, she realizes that she made a terrible mistake in believing that if she loved Anakin enough, he wouldn't turn out bad. Her feelings for Anakin changed in the aftermath of him telling her about slaughtering the sandpeople (even the women, and the children). That's when she decided to engage in a relationship with him and keeping both the relationship and what he had done secret from the Jedi Order.

When he fell to the dark side and slaughtered everyone (including the younglings) at the Jedi temple, she blamed herself. She consequently blamed herself for the rise of the Emperor and the fall of the Republic. Even then, she still was trying to fix him on Mustafar, even lying to Obi-wan about where he was. And honestly, she does carry a lot of blame for her decisions.

Anakin and Padme isn't the love story people think it is. People bounce off the story of their relationship because they are looking at it wrong. Anakin was unhealthily obsessed with Padme and she was unhealthily obsessed with fixing him on her own. It's a toxic love affair that was doomed from the start. When she finally realized that after he force choked her nearly to death, her grief killed her.

As for TLJ, while the plot is a bit of a mess, the character work is outstanding, and had Trevarro's script been greenlighted for E9, I think the sequel trilogy would have been saved from the mess that JJ created with Force Awakens.

 

[MarkB]

People dying of grief is a real thing (see Carrie Fisher's mom dying a few days after she passed, and there are countless stories of spouses dying within weeks of each other).

Padme isn't sad about a boy, she realizes that she made a terrible mistake in believing that if she loved Anakin enough, he wouldn't turn out bad. Her feelings for Anakin changed in the aftermath of him telling her about slaughtering the sandpeople (even the women, and the children). That's when she decided to engage in a relationship with him and keeping both the relationship and what he had done secret from the Jedi Order.

When he fell to the dark side and slaughtered everyone (including the younglings) at the Jedi temple, she blamed herself. She consequently blamed herself for the rise of the Emperor and the fall of the Republic. Even then, she still was trying to fix him on Mustafar, even lying to Obi-wan about where he was. And honestly, she does carry a lot of blame for her decisions.

Anakin and Padme isn't the love story people think it is. People bounce off the story of their relationship because they are looking at it wrong. Anakin was unhealthily obsessed with Padme and she was unhealthily obsessed with fixing him on her own. It's a toxic love affair that was doomed from the start. When she finally realized that after he force choked her nearly to death, her grief killed her.

That's a take. I don't think the movies show any great sign of Padme acknowledging Anakin's darkness or trying to change him.

 

[Zaukrie]

That's a take. I don't think the movies show any great sign of Padme acknowledging Anakin's darkness or trying to change him.

It's all so badly written about those two....so badly written. (IMO, of course).

 

[OB1]

It's all so badly written about those two....so badly written. (IMO, of course).

I'll agree that the dialogue is poorly written by Lucas, but the motivations behind the characters are clear based on the actions each takes, and the story itself is great.

He had the same problem with Jar Jar in TPM. The character is supposed to be grating and annoying to the characters around him. That's the point. Yet Qui Gon believes Jar Jar is worthy of compassion and life regardless of those flaws. Eventually Padame sees this as well and it helps save her people. The problem is that Lucas made the character grating and annoying to the audience to the point that it messes with the story.

Same with Anakin and Padme. Anakin has been obsessing about her for a decade, has no experience in courting, and also has a massive ego due to his abilities with the force. He's not supposed to be a suave ladies man who sweeps Padme off her feet (ie the infamous 'sand' conversation).

Padme starts off flattered by the attention of a Jedi, then pushes him away when she realizes how serious he is about her and that he doesn't just want a fling while they're on a adventure together, then pulls him back close after his confession about the sand people in the misguided hope that it will 'save' him from his darkness (and also to comfort him in the face of imminent death). In some ways, she's applying the same lesson she learned in TPM with Jar Jar to Anakin, but it doesn't work because the secrecy and deception distorts it, and only becomes worse when she becomes pregnant in RotS. Meanwhile Anakin's hero complex (again, started in TPM when he wins the podrace and helps win the battle of Naboo, and was shown growing over his apprenticeship with Obi Wan via their dialogue at the start of AotC) and unhealthy obsession with Padme (like, the first half of AotC he is very, very stalkery) join together in RotS into tragic consequences.

In RotJ, Vader's love for his son saves Luke, but in the Prequel's Anakin and Padme's 'love' dooms them both, because the later isn't real love. To me, the story Lucas is telling is clear, even if what he wrote muddles it so bad as to lead to misinterpretation about what's happening between them. Put another way, the text of Lucas's writing is very good, it's the texture that's so off as to mess up the emotions that the audience should be feeling about what's happening when they see it.

 

[MarkB]

I'll agree that the dialogue is poorly written by Lucas, but the motivations behind the characters are clear based on the actions each takes, and the story itself is great.

He had the same problem with Jar Jar in TPM. The character is supposed to be grating and annoying to the characters around him. That's the point. Yet Qui Gon believes Jar Jar is worthy of compassion and life regardless of those flaws. Eventually Padame sees this as well and it helps save her people. The problem is that Lucas made the character grating and annoying to the audience to the point that it messes with the story.

Same with Anakin and Padme. Anakin has been obsessing about her for a decade, has no experience in courting, and also has a massive ego due to his abilities with the force. He's not supposed to be a suave ladies man who sweeps Padme off her feet (ie the infamous 'sand' conversation).

Padme starts off flattered by the attention of a Jedi, then pushes him away when she realizes how serious he is about her and that he doesn't just want a fling while they're on a adventure together, then pulls him back close after his confession about the sand people in the misguided hope that it will 'save' him from his darkness (and also to comfort him in the face of imminent death). In some ways, she's applying the same lesson she learned in TPM with Jar Jar to Anakin, but it doesn't work because the secrecy and deception distorts it, and only becomes worse when she becomes pregnant in RotS. Meanwhile Anakin's hero complex (again, started in TPM when he wins the podrace and helps win the battle of Naboo, and was shown growing over his apprenticeship with Obi Wan via their dialogue at the start of AotC) and unhealthy obsession with Padme (like, the first half of AotC he is very, very stalkery) join together in RotS into tragic consequences.

In RotJ, Vader's love for his son saves Luke, but in the Prequel's Anakin and Padme's 'love' dooms them both, because the later isn't real love. To me, the story Lucas is telling is clear, even if what he wrote muddles it so bad as to lead to misinterpretation about what's happening between them. Put another way, the text of Lucas's writing is very good, it's the texture that's so off as to mess up the emotions that the audience should be feeling about what's happening when they see it.

Anakin's obsession with Padme always seemed very obvious in its basis, a combination of teenage hormones and desperate need for attachment. Padme's attraction to Anakin, on the other hand, always felt inexplicable, especially given his behaviour.

As uncomfortable as it is, I've tended to conclude that he's basically unconsciously exercising a Mind Trick style mental influence on her every moment that he's in her presence, and it's just gradually worn down her mental walls and kindled a reflection of his own obsession within her.

 

[GreyLord]

If you ask me, the real story of Anakin Skywalker is what turned him from a helpful, relatively cheerful little sprout in Phantom Menace to the creep in Attack of the Clones. And that's the story that isn't told.

Ever had teenagers?

They are so cute when they are little, and then they turn into these hellions that spend all your money!

Well, you still love them, but something happens right around 13 or 14 and their entire attitude changes for something like 10 years. (4 or 5 if you are lucky).

 

[billd91]

Ever had teenagers?

They are so cute when they are little, and then they turn into these hellions that spend all your money!

Well, you still love them, but something happens right around 13 or 14 and their entire attitude changes for something like 10 years. (4 or 5 if you are lucky).

I've raised two. And they were a lot nicer and more socially well-adjusted than Anakin (we won't compare mental health issues exacerbated by the pandemic - no, we won't).

 

[OB1]

Anakin's obsession with Padme always seemed very obvious in its basis, a combination of teenage hormones and desperate need for attachment. Padme's attraction to Anakin, on the other hand, always felt inexplicable, especially given his behaviour.

As uncomfortable as it is, I've tended to conclude that he's basically unconsciously exercising a Mind Trick style mental influence on her every moment that he's in her presence, and it's just gradually worn down her mental walls and kindled a reflection of his own obsession within her.

I mean, the good girl falling for the bad boy is a cliche in stories, song and in life. She's attracted to the forbidden nature of the relationship (having a secret when you live a very public life is intoxicating), the fact that he is basically a super hero (or a sports mega star in our world), and by his pain, which she thinks she can help soothe (because she is a champion of those in need).

In a comedy, the good girl turns the bad boy good, in a tragedy, the good girl is destroyed by the bad boy (Han and Leia in the OT, Anakin and Padme in the PT). Again, this not being crystal clear to audiences is Lucas's problem with texture in his script writing (and why if he'd written ESB the Han/Leia romance wouldn't have been good) even though the story itself is strong.

See also the Taylor Swift and I Prevail versions of the song Blank Space.

Swift - I can turn the bad boys good for a weekend
I Prevail - I can turn the good girls bad for a weekend

You should be horrified by the wedding at the end of AotC (I'd argue that John Williams understood Lucas's intention, and the score actually works towards the tragedy and sense of doom in that moment). She feels like she's trapped herself after saying what she did on the verge of their execution, and is perhaps scared what would happen to his mental state if she rejected him after, so she goes all in with the hope that she can keep him away from his worst impulses, but it just makes things worse.

The prequel trilogy as a whole is a tragedy of epic proportions, from the Republic to the Jedi to the 'romance' of Anakin and Padme. Republics fall as much from their own failures as from external forces.

 

[MarkB]

I mean, the good girl falling for the bad boy is a cliche in stories, song and in life. She's attracted to the forbidden nature of the relationship (having a secret when you live a very public life is intoxicating), the fact that he is basically a super hero (or a sports mega star in our world), and by his pain, which she thinks she can help soothe (because she is a champion of those in need).

And that would have been a good story. But it simply isn't there on screen.