D&D (2024) Can A Spell Caster Out Damage a Martial Consistently?

[Zardnaar]

Maybe, but what you use and what the rules use are different.

Anyone can administer a healing potion with a bonus action, and anyone can learn to brew healing potions. They take all of a day to craft so they can be stockpiled during downtime.

My current rogue (thief) is a wannabe bard who has Musician and Chef feats, and will be adding Inspiring Leader. I am a bit behind in his DEX but it's not very detrimental to be a bit behind. If I ever get to 19th level I will be combining Reliable Talent with Boon of Skill. He has the proficiencies to craft potions, wonderous items, and rings. Healing potions are easy within downtime constraints. Rings not so much but that's true for anyone.

It doesn't take casters to do these things, and it doesn't take house rules to do things already within the core books. The house rules might be better in your game but those aren't the default everyone else is going to be using. ;-)

I could do this with a fighter too, but lose the rogue skill benefits. Taking Healer at first level and Chef at fourth level, and a proficiency to brew healing potions (or just buy potions) covers a good amount of healing. In a party of four that takes two short rests Chef provides 8d8 healing spread out with some minor temp hp. Healer lets someone spend a hit die and then the healer adds additional healing on to that.

We like manipulation of rice and initiative.

Don't take damage if they're dead or incapacitated.

 

[Ashrym]

We like manipulation of rice and initiative.

Don't take damage if they're dead or incapacitated.

Sure, manipulation of dice and initiative is good. My disagreement is that martials need to follow the caster time table based on spell, that the reason for this is because the martials need the casters for healing or they can't continue, or that this causes martials to not be able to continue inflicting damage just because the casters want to rest.

IME the group works best when the casters support the martials with spells while the martials inflict damage.

 

[Zardnaar]

Sure, manipulation of dice and initiative is good. My disagreement is that martials need to follow the caster time table based on spell, that the reason for this is because the martials need the casters for healing or they can't continue, or that this causes martials to not be able to continue inflicting damage just because the casters want to rest.

IME the group works best when the casters support the martials with spells while the martials inflict damage.

Yeah that's the mist efficient meta.

If on playing a cleric I only heal in emergencies via healing word or once all HD are depleted.

 

[^Dagon^]

Sure, manipulation of dice and initiative is good. My disagreement is that martials need to follow the caster time table based on spell, that the reason for this is because the martials need the casters for healing or they can't continue, or that this causes martials to not be able to continue inflicting damage just because the casters want to rest.

IME the group works best when the casters support the martials with spells while the martials inflict damage.

That was the intention of 5e in the first place and it holds true in 5.5 too ( I am refering to your last phrase). In my opinion, limiting viable strategies is a bad thing that reduces diversity and customization. More options should be optimal, just like in older editions.

5e and it's sibling 5.5 wanted all casters to be support (cleric), control (cleric, wizard, sorcerer), and utility (wizard). Especially utility for wizard, it is obvious if you look at how much certain utility spells were buffed. But not everyone likes to play a trickster, a 'magician' so to say. Certainly not me as well as a great deal of caster players.

The viable strategies should include summoner and blaster too, just like in the good, old days.

 

[ECMO3]

It's not just hit dice and healing potions. It's also class abilities, subclass abilities, and feats. We can't ignore those because there's a lot of options in there.

There's a load of healing outside of spells. That's why casters are using their spell slots on DoT's or status effects or buffs instead.

This is all true, I mentioned potions because EVERY PC can use them, regardless of class, subclass and level.

 

[ECMO3]

we use that administrating potion to another character is an Action, it's simply more work and coordination to complete.

That is a great homebrew, it makes sense and it is what I use at the table I DM (not those tables I am a player in). It is homebrew though, the rules are it is a bonus action to administer a potion of healing, which means any PC can be a healer.

Sidenote - this also makes Second Wind nearly useless as an in-combat healing option for Fighters in tier 1 and 2. Same action cost and higher resource cost that a potion of healing. This moves 2nd wind from its stereotypical usage to almost exclusively being used for Tactical Mind or Tactical Shift.

 

[Horwath]

That is a great homebrew, it makes sense and it is what I use at the table I DM (not those tables I am a player in). It is homebrew though, the rules are it is a bonus action to administer a potion of healing, which means any PC can be a healer.

Sidenote - this also makes Second Wind nearly useless as an in-combat healing option for Fighters in tier 1 and 2. Same action cost and higher resource cost that a potion of healing. This moves 2nd wind from its stereotypical usage to almost exclusively being used for Tactical Mind or Tactical Shift.

well, second wind is self restockable, that makes it valuable.

 

[Zardnaar]

That is a great homebrew, it makes sense and it is what I use at the table I DM (not those tables I am a player in). It is homebrew though, the rules are it is a bonus action to administer a potion of healing, which means any PC can be a healer.

Sidenote - this also makes Second Wind nearly useless as an in-combat healing option for Fighters in tier 1 and 2. Same action cost and higher resource cost that a potion of healing. This moves 2nd wind from its stereotypical usage to almost exclusively being used for Tactical Mind or Tactical Shift.

Your group sold items like candy tbf.

Low levels 50gp a pop assuming adds up fast

 

[Ashrym]

Your group sold items like candy tbf.

Low levels 50gp a pop assuming adds up fast

A cleric's few spell slots at low levels don't go far either.

That's why I bring up crafting. Twice as many potions for the same money time permitting.

It's also why I bring up other sources of healing. The healer feat is still good regardess of the changes.

 

[Zardnaar]

A cleric's few spell slots at low levels don't go far either.

That's why I bring up crafting. Twice as many potions for the same money time permitting.

It's also why I bring up other sources of healing. The healer feat is still good regardess of the changes.

Original healer feat I rated very highly in the 6-8 encounters paradigm and two short rests.

Turns out most people weren't playing that way. Made the game easy mode. In effect it was 12-15 free potions of healing or close to it per day.

Hea L'bot acolyte life domain cleric with healer feat. What a guy.

I added the feat to Celestial Warlock. Got plenty of short rests for some strange reason.