Righteous Blood, Ruthless Blades; Wandering Heroes of Ogre Gate; Strange Tales of Songling

[JConstantine]

So, I picked up Righteous Blood, Ruthless Blades back at the tail end of covid, but never got it to the table (physical or virtual). Has anyone played it? How did you find it? What have you done with it?

As I understand it, RBRB is derived from Wandering Heroes of Ogre Gate, as is Strange Tales of Songling, and since they're all by the same @Bedrockgames and likely too niche to warrant their own individual threads, I'm happy to broaden the discussion to include those as well if anyone has more experience with them.

 

[JConstantine]

I've been thinking about how to model the Green Destiny from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (and it's sequel, Sword of Destiny) in RBRB.

It's a jian, so that's the obvious place to start. However, at several points throughout the movie, it's described as fast, so I'm thinking it'd be appropriate to replace the jian's standard Muscle with Speed, like Liquid Swords.
The Green Destiny is also shown to cut through just about anything, so I figured I take inspiration from The Qiwu Sword.
Lastly, it's described as being "seven tenths of an inch thick and crafted 400 years ago using techniques lost to time". CT,HD is set during the Qing dynasty, which started in 1644, so that would put it's creation in the mid-1200s at the earliest, which would be the tail end of the Song dynasty. And it just so happens that RBRB is hinted to be set during that exact period.

So what I've got so far is:

The Green Destiny​

This exquisitely crafted jian has a blade that appears to be inlaid with jade and is decorated with a finely sculpted jade guard. The techniques used to make it are unknown.​

It does Speed + 1d10 damage, grants a +1d10 bonus to attacks and inflicts one extra wound on a Total Success. It is also capable of cutting through inanimate objects and structures with ease, including weapons. Should anyone attempt to parry the sword, there is a 5 in 10 chance that the Green Destiny will cut through the object and the attack resolved as normal.​

@Bedrockgames Thoughts?

 

[Guest 85555]

I've been thinking about how to model the Green Destiny from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (and it's sequel, Sword of Destiny) in RBRB.

It's a jian, so that's the obvious place to start. However, at several points throughout the movie, it's described as fast, so I'm thinking it'd be appropriate to replace the jian's standard Muscle with Speed, like Liquid Swords.
The Green Destiny is also shown to cut through just about anything, so I figured I take inspiration from The Qiwu Sword.
Lastly, it's described as being "seven tenths of an inch thick and crafted 400 years ago using techniques lost to time". CT,HD is set during the Qing dynasty, which started in 1644, so that would put it's creation in the mid-1200s at the earliest, which would be the tail end of the Song dynasty. And it just so happens that RBRB is hinted to be set during that exact period.

So what I've got so far is:

The Green Destiny​

This exquisitely crafted jian has a blade that appears to be inlaid with jade and is decorated with a finely sculpted jade guard. The techniques used to make it are unknown.​

It does Speed + 1d10 damage, grants a +1d10 bonus to attacks and inflicts one extra wound on a Total Success. It is also capable of cutting through inanimate objects and structures with ease, including weapons. Should anyone attempt to parry the sword, there is a 5 in 10 chance that the Green Destiny will cut through the object and the attack resolved as normal.​

@Bedrockgames Thoughts?

This looks good to me. I am sure Jeremy has given this one some thought as Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is a movie he has particular fondness for

 

[JConstantine]

If he has it statted up, I'd love to see how it compares.

 

[Guest 85555]

If he has it statted up, I'd love to see how it compares.

I asked and he has not. But he likes this version. He also offered a piece of information about the translation of the subs. I am going to quote him here, figured this information might be useful to you:

This is a point where the English subtitles differ from Chinese. In English she says that "certain moves call for a sword." But in Chinese, she says that "Li Mubai's Wudang Xuanping sword technique can only be fully utilized with THIS sword." I don't have access to the Chinese subtitles so I'm not sure exactly what the name of the technique is. It could be Xuanping or maybe Xuanming or Juanping or maybe something else (Xuanming would make a lot of sense because it would share a character with the name of Green Destiny, but who knows). Anyway, the point is that according to her, there is some mystical connection between the sword and the Wudang techniques. This is important to the plot of the movie because, as you recall, "Jen" is studying those exact techniques, but feels that she can't progress past her master. So when she hears that the sword is the key to the technique, it prompts her to steal the sword....In any case, the sword clearly does have some inherent powers, as you reflected in the stat block, because later on in the classic fight at the end of the movie, Michelle Yeoh says that "Jen" would be trash without Green Destiny. But there is always the question in my mind of how much of Li Mubai's renown was because of the sword, and how much because of the technique, and also how much the combination of the two mattered....

 

[JConstantine]

This is a point where the English subtitles differ from Chinese. In English she says that "certain moves call for a sword." But in Chinese, she says that "Li Mubai's Wudang Xuanping sword technique can only be fully utilized with THIS sword."

Oh, man. That adds a layer of context that's totally missing in the English version. It comes across as Green Destiny just being a fancy sword, so she wants it because why wouldn't she.

Anyway, the point is that according to her, there is some mystical connection between the sword and the Wudang techniques.

I'm wondering if this warrants a signature ability to pair with it. But I'm drawing a blank for what, right now.

But there is always the question in my mind of how much of Li Mubai's renown was because of the sword, and how much because of the technique, and also how much the combination of the two mattered....

I think it's fair to say that Li Mubai was still incredibly skilled given how he pretty much outshines everyone else even without the Green Destiny, including Jen using it.

 

[JConstantine]

I've been giving some thought to a signature ability for the Wudang techniques, but first, some research.

The Wudang in question is the fictional Wudang school/sect located in the Wudang Mountains, based on the real Taoist temples there, which are associated with neidan or internal alchemy. In my lay understanding, this would be covered by RBRB's Internal Arts (neigong). I'm sure there's some philosophical nuance based around Taoist vs Buddhist belief, but that's beyond the scope of the game and this exercise.

Back to the film, the only time Li Mu Bai is shown using Internal Arts is at the end of the film when he's purging Jen of the drug Jade Fox used on her (RBRB: Healing Hands of the Mercy Goddess), and slowing his own cardiac rhythm to delay his own death from poisoning (RBRB: Awakening the Golden Lantern I). However, he's shown to outclass everyone in the fights he's involved in suggesting mastery of External Arts, and his ability to balance on the tips of a bamboo branch even when Jen is actively shaking it with her whole weight suggests mastery of Lightness Arts.
Does that mean, in RBRB terms, he's maxed all 3 Martial Arts the standard way? Maybe. But what if this is due to a Wudang technique giving him a shortcut? And so I present my initial idea:

Wudang Technique I​

You have attained such mastery over self that you are able to use your Internal Martial Arts to empower your other Martial Arts. When you make a skill roll using External Martial Arts or Lightness Martial Arts, you may use your ranks in Internal Martial Arts as a substitute.​

I quickly realised that this technique doesn't quite match what we see in the film. If Li Mu Bai's Internal Arts were so good that he was substituting his External and Lightness Arts with it, then the depiction of his Internal Arts should be on par with his External and Lightness Arts, but the fact he succumbs to the poison suggests it's not. Which brings me to the next iteration:

Wudang Technique II​

You have attained such mastery over self that you are able to use your Internal Martial Arts to empower your other Martial Arts. When you make a skill roll using External Martial Arts or Lightness Martial Arts, you may add your ranks in Internal Martial Arts to the roll.​

This revision means that with even a single rank in either External or Lightness Arts, each will always be better than Internal Arts when paired with this technique. That better reflects what we see of Li Mu Bai's skill.

Now the question is how to pair this with Green Destiny. I will need to meditate on it and hope I don't experience Fire Deviation.

 

[Guest 85555]

I've been giving some thought to a signature ability for the Wudang techniques, but first, some research.

The Wudang in question is the fictional Wudang school/sect located in the Wudang Mountains, based on the real Taoist temples there, which are associated with neidan or internal alchemy. In my lay understanding, this would be covered by RBRB's Internal Arts (neigong). I'm sure there's some philosophical nuance based around Taoist vs Buddhist belief, but that's beyond the scope of the game and this exercise.

I would definitely make wudang an internal school. I have some thoughts on that below. And I have a couple of viewing recommendations if you haven't seen them.

Back to the film, the only time Li Mu Bai is shown using Internal Arts is at the end of the film when he's purging Jen of the drug Jade Fox used on her (RBRB: Healing Hands of the Mercy Goddess), and slowing his own cardiac rhythm to delay his own death from poisoning (RBRB: Awakening the Golden Lantern I). However, he's shown to outclass everyone in the fights he's involved in suggesting mastery of External Arts, and his ability to balance on the tips of a bamboo branch even when Jen is actively shaking it with her whole weight suggests mastery of Lightness Arts.
Does that mean, in RBRB terms, he's maxed all 3 Martial Arts the standard way? Maybe. But what if this is due to a Wudang technique giving him a shortcut? And so I present my initial idea:

This is probably a bit subjective. One thought is because he failed to stave of the poison, maybe he doesn't have Awakening the Golden Lantern and was just using his regular meditation skill to the best of his ability. But I would also say, internal martial arts covers enough ground that he can still be good at fighting with it. You can probably get away with having him be good at Lightness Martial Arts and Internal because internal can still cover thing like swordplay (if you take a look at Sword Goddess and her abilities in RBRB those are Internal approaches to the sword).

Just to give an idea of how versatile internal martial arts are in RBRB, these three abilities are all internal:

Also if you haven't checked them out, you may want to watch Bride with White Hair and Tai Chi Master. Those could be useful to you here. I took extensive notes the last time I read the book Bride with White Hair is based on, and had about half of the Wudang techniques mentioned in that story described (I was just trying to find the notes but I am not sure I have them anymore otherwise I would post them here for you). But if you check out the online translation of Baifa Monu Zhuan, that gets into wudang and their swordplay abilities. I was going to do a Bride with White Hair campaign so I made a point of writing down the techniques that appeared in the story

Wudang Technique I​

You have attained such mastery over self that you are able to use your Internal Martial Arts to empower your other Martial Arts. When you make a skill roll using External Martial Arts or Lightness Martial Arts, you may use your ranks in Internal Martial Arts as a substitute.​

I quickly realised that this technique doesn't quite match what we see in the film. If Li Mu Bai's Internal Arts were so good that he was substituting his External and Lightness Arts with it, then the depiction of his Internal Arts should be on par with his External and Lightness Arts, but the fact he succumbs to the poison suggests it's not. Which brings me to the next iteration:

Wudang Technique II​

You have attained such mastery over self that you are able to use your Internal Martial Arts to empower your other Martial Arts. When you make a skill roll using External Martial Arts or Lightness Martial Arts, you may add your ranks in Internal Martial Arts to the roll.​

This revision means that with even a single rank in either External or Lightness Arts, each will always be better than Internal Arts when paired with this technique. That better reflects what we see of Li Mu Bai's skill.

Now the question is how to pair this with Green Destiny. I will need to meditate on it and hope I don't experience Fire Deviation.

You can do this for sure, and I think there are a number of different ways to read what Li Mubai is doing (Jeremy has probably thought about this more than me so I may ask for his opinion here). But if you do go this direction, I think you might want to make this ability a little more potent, as it is going to be a full SA slot. My gut tells me you can make this one a bit more powerful without worrying too much. An alternative is to simply give him new sword abilities that use internal marital arts and are inspired by what you see him do in CTHD (and maybe using the above sword goddess SAs as a point of reference).

 

[JConstantine]

This is probably a bit subjective. One thought is because he failed to stave of the poison, maybe he doesn't have Awakening the Golden Lantern and was just using his regular meditation skill to the best of his ability.

True, but (in the English version) Jen states that poison goes straight to the heart, implying a fast-acting lethality, and that the antidote takes time to prepare. It's not quite clear how much time passes, but it's certainly long enough that it seems to me Li Mu Bai would have Awakening the Golden Lantern I, but not II.

But I would also say, internal martial arts covers enough ground that he can still be good at fighting with it. You can probably get away with having him be good at Lightness Martial Arts and Internal because internal can still cover thing like swordplay (if you take a look at Sword Goddess and her abilities in RBRB those are Internal approaches to the sword).

Just to give an idea of how versatile internal martial arts are in RBRB, these three abilities are all internal:

View attachment 406264

I went through the entire Signature Abilities section twice and glossed over those both times. I was even specifically looking for Internal Martial Arts characteristic! I think partly because there's quite a few, and partly because I was probably too rigid in my understanding of Internal Arts. I may have to go back to the drawing board.

Also if you haven't checked them out, you may want to watch Bride with White Hair and Tai Chi Master.

I haven't seen Bride with White Hair, and I think it was whenever Hero came out that I last saw Tai Chi Master.

But if you do go this direction, I think you might want to make this ability a little more potent, as it is going to be a full SA slot. My gut tells me you can make this one a bit more powerful without worrying too much.

That's fair. I don't have an intuitive grasp on how powerful SAs should be. I was thinking an upgrade to it would be allowing adding Internal Martial Arts ranks to all skill rolls.

An alternative is to simply give him new sword abilities that use internal marital arts and are inspired by what you see him do in CTHD (and maybe using the above sword goddess SAs as a point of reference).

Yeah, I was thinking that. And such abilities would probably be easier to tie to Green Destiny directly for the Xuanping techniques Jeremy mentioned. Speaking of, Jeremy said "Xuanming" was a possible name; I'm wondering if that would then have any ties to the mythological entity Xuan Ming (Yu Qiang)?

 

[Guest 85555]

True, but (in the English version) Jen states that poison goes straight to the heart, implying a fast-acting lethality, and that the antidote takes time to prepare. It's not quite clear how much time passes, but it's certainly long enough that it seems to me Li Mu Bai would have Awakening the Golden Lantern I, but not II.

That seems reasonable

I went through the entire Signature Abilities section twice and glossed over those both times. I was even specifically looking for Internal Martial Arts characteristic! I think partly because there's quite a few, and partly because I was probably too rigid in my understanding of Internal Arts. I may have to go back to the drawing board.

It is easy to miss these ones. This kind of thing probably should have been clarified in the Internal Martial Arts description itself as well

I haven't seen Bride with White Hair, and I think it was whenever Hero came out that I last saw Tai Chi Master.

Bride with White Hair is a kind of star-crossed lovers wuxia film about a woman from an evil sect who falls in love with a member of Wudang. If you like this one, the sequel, which isn't as good as the original, has a lot of gameable elements

That's fair. I don't have an intuitive grasp on how powerful SAs should be. I was thinking an upgrade to it would be allowing adding Internal Martial Arts ranks to all skill rolls.

It takes time to get a sense of where the levels should be in terms of power

Yeah, I was thinking that. And such abilities would probably be easier to tie to Green Destiny directly for the Xuanping techniques Jeremy mentioned. Speaking of, Jeremy said "Xuanming" was a possible name; I'm wondering if that would then have any ties to the mythological entity Xuan Ming (Yu Qiang)?

I am not sure on that connection. I can ask him if you want