D&D General Refresher Course D&D Edition Numbers. AKA Modern D&D Is a Self Inflicted Problem.

I font have any nostalgia for 3.0, 3.5 or Pathfinder in terms of playing them again.
I jump in ocasionally in PF1 game for session or two. Would jump for couple of sessions of 3.5 also. It's fun, from player side. There's no chance in hell i would run either of those as a DM these days.
But damn they had some great adventures, concept and material.
Between 3, 3.5 and PF1, even without 3PP, there is abundance of material, from settings, to player options, to adventures. If we take it as single game edition, it spans 19 years of published materials.
3.5 and PF are too focused on gridded minis combat, IMO.
Maybe. It's highly table dependent. Most people i know played both ToTM. Grids and minis were rare. At best, sometimes people would approximate positions using dice or coins (without grid). In personal experience, using grid and minis slowed down combat.
 

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Maybe. It's highly table dependent. Most people i know played both ToTM. Grids and minis were rare.
Yeah, you can run both without minis, but they did make the mechanics more mini focused than they were in 3.0

At best, sometimes people would approximate positions using dice or coins (without grid).
Fair. We did that with a whiteboard sometimes when I was running PF1.

In personal experience, using grid and minis slowed down combat.
I am inclined to agree. Slowed it down a fair bit and often with no real benefit.
 


Other RPGs exist????!!!!!
No, they are just demons and devils trying to tempt you and lead you away from what is good and holy. Beware their temptations, their false promises of deeper roleplaying experiences, or more tactical combat (or less), or faster, elegant gameplay, evocative settings or whatever. The worst of them will even force you to abandon your d20!
 

No, they are just demons and devils trying to tempt you and lead you away from what is good and holy. Beware their temptations, their false promises of deeper roleplaying experiences, or more tactical combat (or less), or faster, elegant gameplay, evocative settings or whatever. The worst of them will even force you to abandon your d20!

Think im safe. Colonial isolation. Blame the British.
 

Think im safe. Colonial isolation. Blame the British.
On the off-chance you've really never heard of the other non-D&D-or-Pathfimder RPGs I mentioned (seemed very unlikely for someone who had tried all the D&D Editions), they're probably all still available on DrivethruRPG and Warehouse23 in PDF.

i don't know which one I mentioned I would say is most up your alley though. Maybe Rolemaster 4e? Or perhaps Mongoose' Rune-quest 2 (Which they rebranded as "Legend" and rereleased after they lost the RQ license - same mechanics).
 

On the off-chance you've really never heard of the other non-D&D-or-Pathfimder RPGs I mentioned (seemed very unlikely for someone who had tried all the D&D Editions), they're probably all still available on DrivethruRPG and Warehouse23 in PDF.

i don't know which one I mentioned I would say is most up your alley though. Maybe Rolemaster 4e? Or perhaps Mongoose' Rune-quest 2 (Which they rebranded as "Legend" and rereleased after they lost the RQ license - same mechanics).

Main reason is no point. New RPG does it come with players?

I own all the Editions. I haven't played OD&D or DM 1E.
 

Main reason is no point. New RPG does it come with players?
In my experience, if you're the one running it, regardless of the system, you can usually find players. But yeah, fair. I'd rather pick a ruleset I like and be hyped to run it, than one I don't like playing or running but has lots of players.

I ran 5e. it wasn't fun. I played 5e. it wasn't fun. I tried to fix 5e with a ton of houserules and 3rd party content and only selectively including published 5e stuff. It eventually was approaching becoming fun for me, but 5e fans in my group got frustrated it for how different it was at that point - and I realised I was wasting time trying to make fun a system that was just not enjoyable for me.

So - one of my primary considerations is "will I enjoy playing / running this", well before "how many active players does it have". Because there are many systems (including D&D 4e and D&D 5e) I've tried over the years that I just didn't enjoy, and would rather stay home by myself and read a book than play them again.
 
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In my experience, if you're the one running it, regardless of the system, you can usually find players. But yeah, fair. I'd rather pick a ruleset I like and be hyped to run it, than one I don't like playing or running but has lots of players.

I ran 5e. it wasn't fun. I played 5e. it wasn't fun. I tried to fix 5e with a ton of houserules and 3rd party content and only selectively including published 5e stuff. It eventually was approaching becoming fun for me, but 5e fans in my group got frustrated it for how different it was at that point - and I realised I was wasting time trying to make fun a system that was just not enjoyable for me.

So - one of my primary considerations is "will I enjoy playing / running this", well before "how many active players does it have". Because there are many systems (including D&D 4e and D&D 5e) I've tried over the years that I just didn't enjoy, and would rather stay home by myself and read a book than play them again.
What are you looking for from the game, then?

Because what you describe is precisely how I felt about 3e, and is more or less how I feel about 5e (it's a bit different but still similar). 4e was the exact opposite. It was finally a game actually doing the things I'd always wanted. Of course, I spent the first like year or two of 4e's run being a hater because that's what I was taught to be by a former friend that had never even read it. Once I actually saw it in action, though, I was hooked. D&D was finally actually a cooperative, team game. It was a game that took game design seriously, as opposed to acting like game design is a silly irrelevance or something you can literally put almost zero effort into because you can just double the GM's workload instead. And it offered thematic things I'd been hungering for for decades, like a "proud warrior race" that wasn't ugly, stupid, nor evil.

So...what do YOU want from D&D? What do you yearn for, in your heart of hearts? Really drill down and go deep. This is a difficult question; please don't answer lightly or casually. I emphasize this because I never figured half this stuff out without being exposed to other approaches. I thought, for at least 7 years, that I knew exactly what I wanted and that 3e was giving me like 95% of it. That, as you say, all I needed was just the right combo of house rules or the right ACFs or a killer setting concept and I'd have the game I always longed to play but couldn't quite find. 4e showed me that 3e, fundamentally, at almost the very core of the system, not only didn't but couldn't do what I wanted. 3e is incapable of being the team-based game where story and rules form a united, consistent front. Even the very very best of retooled rules (specifically, DSP's Spheres of Power and Spheres of Might come to mind) simply patch the gaping maw of the horrible, horrible design faults in 3e, making a system that is as far as I can tell quite well-balanced, but totally devoid of the teamwork incentive that I desire.
 

What are you looking for from the game, then?

Because what you describe is precisely how I felt about 3e, and is more or less how I feel about 5e (it's a bit different but still similar). 4e was the exact opposite. It was finally a game actually doing the things I'd always wanted. Of course, I spent the first like year or two of 4e's run being a hater because that's what I was taught to be by a former friend that had never even read it. Once I actually saw it in action, though, I was hooked. D&D was finally actually a cooperative, team game. It was a game that took game design seriously, as opposed to acting like game design is a silly irrelevance or something you can literally put almost zero effort into because you can just double the GM's workload instead. And it offered thematic things I'd been hungering for for decades, like a "proud warrior race" that wasn't ugly, stupid, nor evil.

So...what do YOU want from D&D? What do you yearn for, in your heart of hearts? Really drill down and go deep. This is a difficult question; please don't answer lightly or casually. I emphasize this because I never figured half this stuff out without being exposed to other approaches. I thought, for at least 7 years, that I knew exactly what I wanted and that 3e was giving me like 95% of it. That, as you say, all I needed was just the right combo of house rules or the right ACFs or a killer setting concept and I'd have the game I always longed to play but couldn't quite find. 4e showed me that 3e, fundamentally, at almost the very core of the system, not only didn't but couldn't do what I wanted. 3e is incapable of being the team-based game where story and rules form a united, consistent front. Even the very very best of retooled rules (specifically, DSP's Spheres of Power and Spheres of Might come to mind) simply patch the gaping maw of the horrible, horrible design faults in 3e, making a system that is as far as I can tell quite well-balanced, but totally devoid of the teamwork incentive that I desire.
Have you tried PF2? Thats not me being flippant, im honestly curious if you've given it a whirl? It does team cooperation and tactics well.
 

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