D&D 5E What the warlord needs in 5e and how to make it happen.

mellored said:

I have no issue with that.

And i'm still half tempted to vote for butler... particularly with batmans butler in mind.

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raleel said:

I can tell you what it is for me - played it in 4e, was one of my favorite characters, if not my favorite. It has intricate and complex tools. It made full use of the action economy. It was highly team focused, and I am the guy who likes playing team focused characters. Highly tactical and complex, and frankly, not relying on some external power. He didn't spend his whole action healing you (and neither did the 4e cleric mostly). He attacked and healed, or attacked and granted CA, or attacked and shifted another party member.

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raleel said:

I've had Good fun with the 5e bard, but it's not quite the same. Just not enough knobs for my taste. Maybe needed to MC diviner with Lucky and and Shield Mastery or something

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Elfcrusher said:

Sure, and you'd expect to see some kind of power law distribution, with one clear "winner". But it's the shape of the curve in this case that raises my eyebrows. If we're counting threads or posts then I would estimate the Warlord is ahead by an order of magnitude, over all the others combined. And while a number of opponents jump into threads, for the most part the threads are started by the proponents.

Pretty much every class has had it's share of complaints that its not faithful to older versions, or that key features were left out, or whatever. But the discussion tends to fade away pretty quickly, only popping up when something relevant appears in UA. Not so the Warlord.

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I'm glad you mentioned the gish, because my perception is pretty much what you describe, but (again, I missed 3rd and 4th editions) I don't really have the expertise to know for sure. So, yes, I follow the discussions and despite all the gish-y options a lot of people aren't completely satisfied by those options. So where are all the threads? Where are the enumerations of the criteria that a gish has to meet?

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I don't doubt that some opponents of the Warlord are motivated by baggage from previous wars; there's some sort of culture war going on here. But as somebody who stepped into the debate relatively recently, I am surprised...and suspicious...of the uncompromising pro-Warlord fervor that I perceive. It goes way, way beyond, "Gosh class X was kind of fun; I wish they would bring that back."

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Elfcrusher said:

Plus...for me this is a crucial test...if you told a first-time player the word "Butler" they would immediately grasp the concept. Unlike "Warlord".

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Aldarc said:

I suspect that you have your own hypothesis for why this may be the case. Am I hearing that correctly?

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So pro-Warlord fans should compromise on their fervor towards one of their favorite class archetypes and instead be lukewarm on its existence?

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IME, many classes in D&D would fail your crucial test.

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Elfcrusher said:

Mmmm...hypotheses. But no strong conviction. Mostly I find it curious enough to trigger my spidey sense that there's more here than meets the eye.

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Elfcrusher said:

"loyal servant"

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Corwin said:

I don't think you'll ever be able to find *anything* in 5e that matched the levels of knobbery from 4e.

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mellored said:

"Battle Butler" can be a sub-class.

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