Crimson Longinus
Legend
That's not a problem at all. Subclasses exists exactly for this purpose.
D&D 5E Spellcasters and Balance in 5e: A Poll
Campbell
Relaxed Intensity
I think if we want the conceptual space of the fighter to be more defined by subclass than class it's obvious fighter subclasses should bear more weight than the overall class chassis. Otherwise it just becomes a cyclical argument about why fighters can't have nice things.
The Annihilargh
Explorer
Just so I understand correctly, do you mean "remove" Fighter from the class list?
Crimson Longinus
Legend
Yes, probably. I generally feel that the game would benefit from subclasses being a tad more hefty. Though there is weird variation about that between the classes. Wizard subclasses (other than the bladesinger) are barely there either.
The Annihilargh
Explorer
Okay, so, what if we made all the classes derive the majority of their power/abilities from their subclass features, like with the Sorcerer's Sorcerous Origins?
(I still would like the Champion subclass to mostly be annexed by the main Fighter class though)
So, like with the Wizard, we made each of its subclasses as distinguished and (/or) as potent as the Bladesinger?
(I still would like the Champion subclass to mostly be annexed by the main Fighter class though)
So, like with the Wizard, we made each of its subclasses as distinguished and (/or) as potent as the Bladesinger?
Undrave
Legend
And it would be applied to enemies as well. And even stuff that's not quite a spell but can be devastating. Think of the way a boss telegraphs their next move in a video game.
If the dragon starts to charge their breath weapon to unleash it down the initiative order, the PCs only have a split second to decide how to react! They can scatter or marshall their ressources to make the hit less effective, and PC who had poor initiative might not even get the chance to do anything. It lets the TERROR of the attack linger! If it's just "He breathes." and a bunch of rolls, it just doesn't feel that great.
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Undrave
Legend
For one thing, the number of attacks a Fighter ultimately get (beyond the basic 2 every weapon user ends up with) should be up to the subclass. And probably either Action Surge or Second Wind could be moved to certain subclasses (but not both).
Crimson Longinus
Legend
You could have the champion to be the basic fighteriest of fighters that gets all this stuff.
The Annihilargh
Explorer
But if you take those away, then you'd be taking away the parts that made playing a fighter so appealing in the first place! I feel like making some of the Champion's features (at least Additional Fighting Style and Improved—but not Superior—Critical) a part of the Fighter's baseline features would make them more balanced to spellcasting classes.
Then we could continue by making the Battle Master's Combat Maneuvers like Warlock Invocations (only for Battle Masters though) and have some more powerful maneuvers that are only accessible to those who meet the (mostly level) prerequisites.
Undrave
Legend
Basically yeah! I'm thinking Second Wind is the one that feels more in line with the Champion, since they also get Survivor. So they'd could be the harder to kill guy with lots of attacks. The base fighter can keep the Action Surge since it can lead to fun synergies down the line.
Yeah but that stuff is all combat. If they want a subclass with less combat focus they now have space to work with. Trading those combat buffs for utility, ya know. But you would still see plenty of subclass that get a third attack, for exemple, outside the Champion, and probably a few others with 4 attacks.
Also, I would just make the improved critical be a Fighting style of its own and give the Champion their second style right off the bat at level 3.
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