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D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races
- Thread starter Levistus's_Leviathan
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Chaosmancer
Legend
Then you could ask for clarification instead of assuming I said something that I never said.
Let us say there are two villages. A human village, and a halfling village. Both pay the same taxes.
The human village uses that tax money to make a militia of human soldiers, who fight and die to defend both villages. So if we were to break this into costs
Halfings -> Money
Humans -> Money and Lives
So... wouldn't the humans ask for something to make up that difference? Could it is be food? Sure, it could be food. Could it be goods and services? Sure, it could be goods and services. Could it be higher taxes? Sure, it could be higher taxes. Could it be halfling militia members? Sure, it could be halfling militia members.
And according to the book it is.... nothing. The books are completely silent on the issue. Humans defend the halfling villages, and they ask for nothing at all in return.
So, again, I never said "halflings don't pay taxes" I was accounting for that and then recognizing that humans also pay taxes. And if both are paying taxes, but only one is fighting and dying, the people fighting are going to look for additional compensation in some form. Not just shrug and do it for free.
And ultimately I have never once claimed that halflings are less able to defend themselves than humans. I have in fact REPEATEDLY stated the opposite. That humans and halflings are being held to the same standards.
If you stopped swinging at strawmen in the fog of what you expect me to say, you might actually be able to have a conversation with me. Instead, you are entirely convinced you know my opinion and my responses, and so ascribe to me motives and positions I have never taken.
Oofta
Legend
You previously stated that halflings were freeloaders that contributed nothing. You're making up this notion that halfling will all be draft dodgers, something no one and no lore has ever stated. Nor have they ever stated that all humans are subject to conscription. Almost as if throughout history many countries primarily used mercenaries to fight their wars. Wonder where they got the money.
But I'm sure you'll just twist this around like how I think it's dumb that you arguing that they must use crossbows to be effective.
Is 5e the only edition where the PC races don't get a monster manual write up? Even Mordenkainen's tome doesn't give what a typical encounter would be. It does say they can fend off things... even if the description of how they do so seems more than a bit lacking in some important details for running it using the game rules...
1e had the following (with 2e similar)
Likewise, 3.5 gave:
[As for many things, 4e is off doing its own thing...
]
As for dogs still, I'm guessing it's not the Dwarves riding the Mastiff's in 5e?
So, if the argument is that all Halflings are 4 hp commoners with slings... well, then, yes, it seems like a poor survival strategy and a bizarre thing to posit. If the argument is that most of them are, that feels like a different thing. Presumably a few guards would fit with past precedent and making something believable without disrupting the idea that as a whole they were bucolic commoners. Among the NPCs in the MM, it looks like the picture for the druid might be a Halfling. And the titles of the old tradition (Cook's X) imply what a higher level retired adventurer who returned home might do...
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Neonchameleon
Legend
Funny how different people living in different areas have different approaches.
Halflings who live in areas where raids are common take more precautions than ones who do not expect to be raided. How is this remotely complex for you to understand? Why are you arguing that halflings should all be clones and should take exactly the same precautions in risky and non-risky regions.
Halflings in regions where raids are a reasonable possibility deliberately build their homes small and sturdy. Halflings in peaceful regions where there is not much risk build much more airy homes in part because they know they are safe.
Now. Are we talking a halfling settlement where a gnoll attack is a reasonable possibility? Or are we talking a halfling settlement where there hasn't been a gnoll attack in the last century and where equivalent human settlements wouldn't bother with anything like walls or militia?
The prone rules say "crawl", not "belly crawl" - and they only halve your speed. I bet you can't belly crawl at a mere half speed. If they are crawling they are prone.
Man, I thought that halflings all came out of the cloning machines identical and ordered their identikit houses from Ikea paying no attention to whether they were likely to be attacked or not.
Or just that they don't leave the flammable stuff in line of sight of the windows.
You mean they might make sure that everyone learned to wield a weapon as a child and knew the environment and where to retreat to? They don't have a formal militia - just the training for everyone to be able to fight.
Yes, that's a halfling home in a region where attack isn't likely to happen. You can't think of a single way that that entrance could be better concealed? I mean you wouldn't expand the turf to cover those bright yellow walls and make sure that that door was itself camouflaged. And that there was no path leading up to the steps, marked by stones.
That is a halfling home in a peaceful environment and you still can't see it from most sides.
This is a halfling house in a peaceful environment. It's also the tallest room in the house because it's the entranceway and meant to be welcoming.
Halflings like tall entranceways. They're comfortable, can welcome other races, and they show that there's no need to build small because of raiders. But in regions where they are expecting gnoll or even human raiders it's a luxury they don't actually need.
With a better finish, yes. And probably a couple of sections that the halflings have to squeeze through and gnolls can't get through at all RAW.
Oh wait. That just about ends the gnoll threat inside the halfling homes entirely, doesn't it? A section where halflings have to squeeze to get through.
Or are you really telling me that your halflings are all clones that get their furniture from Halfling Ikea and have building layouts that do not reflect any threats in the environment?
I'm making the assumption that this is somewhere where gnolls attacking is a reasonably forseeable threat, yes. Not monthly - but multiple in living memory. Every few years or so.
If gnoll attacks and attacks from other threats are rare enough that humans wouldn't have plans in place to handle them or a functional militia then yes halflings would be in trouble as well.
No it wasn't. It was a halfling community somewhere gnoll attacks were a predictable problem. And somewhere where it wasn't impossible to have a human village in that area.
Gammadoodler
Hero
It is also a set design for a movie that specifically calls for a full size human man to be inside it, presumably at the same time as the camera, lighting, and sound equipment and crew (also presumably full size human people) required to film scenes on that set.
So it has basically the same design constraints as most halfling houses.
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Chaosmancer
Legend
Okay, so you want to immediately pivot from the game world to the real world. Okay.
How about these three right here. One is a forum of experts on war, one is a reddit used by historians, and one is a cited, researched article
CA COMMUNITY
forums.totalwar.com
Do you know what all three of them say? In the very first response in the forum and the reddit.
"Slings are highly skill intensive, more so than bows or crossbows."
So, no, in the real world, no human community had everyone carrying slings, because slings are the most difficult of the three weapons (slings, bows, crossbows) to learn how to use effectively.
From the article "Reports of estimated range of the sling varies in recent literature. This may stem from the inability of historians to find individuals who can properly demonstrate the sling. The bow, crossbow and firearm, if operated correctly, will produce the same effect the weapon had hundreds of years ago. However, the sling requires tremendous skill, and only people who have had extensive training can claim to match the ability of ancient slingers. Existing literature quotes ranges as little as 150m to as much as 500m (Demmin, 1964; Hogg, 1968; Korfmann, 1973; Wise, 1976; Connolly, 1981; Ferrill, 1985; Richardson, 1998b)."
OH! and look at this. What serendipity, from the same research paper
"Strabo, a Roman historian born in 64 B.C. commented on the famed Balearic slingers:
...their training in the use of slings used to be such, from childhood up, that [parents] would not so much as give bread to their children unless they first hit it with the sling.
Vegetius, Florus, and other classical writers confirm this Balearic tradition and their remarkable proficiency. The Bible also mentions another legendary group, the Benjamites, noting, “every one could sling stones at an hair breadth, and not miss.” (Judges 20.16)"
So, guess that according to our best sources, we have two human societies where are large number of people used slings. The Balearics and the Benjamites. So, historical research proving you wrong. That was a fun bit of learning.
And yet the idea that a human community would band together in mutual defense instead of relying solely on the militia, is met with scorn, because they have a hierarchical society.
The people in the homes being broken into. Guess that community spirit doesn't apply to saving your neighbors.
Lore that was written out of the game. And I guess you've abandoned you "give all halflings sharpshooter with the sling" position, unless you think that isn't changing game rules.
Chaosmancer
Legend
So, I'm ridiculous for engaging in a discussion about game mechanics in how the fight would go down.
But the guy who gave all halflings proficiency, all halflings a feat, made up new terrain features, insisted all of the halfling doors are reinfoced, that there is nothing burnable in a halfling home, and on and on and on has "rationalized" their position and is just indulging me.
My contributions have been "Gnolls who can see at night would attack at night", "Gnolls who have bows would use bows", "Gnolls are noted to use fire arrows, so using fire is reasonable" and that's it. I've added nothing to the gnoll capabilities.
Chaosmancer
Legend
You previously stated that halflings were freeloaders that contributed nothing. You're making up this notion that halfling will all be draft dodgers, something no one and no lore has ever stated. Nor have they ever stated that all humans are subject to conscription. Almost as if throughout history many countries primarily used mercenaries to fight their wars. Wonder where they got the money.
But I'm sure you'll just twist this around like how I think it's dumb that you arguing that they must use crossbows to be effective.
I never stated halflings were freeloaders who contributed nothing.
It is stated that the humans are defending the halflings, if halflings were fighting alongside the humans, why would they state that? So, if the haflings aren't fighting beside the humans... where are they?
Now a local patrol and militia are mercenaries hired for the job. Dang, I wonder how that changed all of a sudden.
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