D&D (2024) Bard brainstorm

Shiroiken said:

I think Bard is a bit limited by the school selection. Either they need to add a Magical Secrets at a lower level, or they need to unlock specific spells at certain levels, in a similar manner to the healing spells.

Click to expand...

UngeheuerLich said:

Yesterday I looked in D&D beyond and just adding the same schools from the druid list and the slight modification of spell schools makes the new bard spell list very good. It also frees up design space, because they don't need the extra healing spells added as a feature.

Click to expand...

Bards believe that the creators of the multiverse spoke and signed it into existence and that echoes of those Words of Creation still resound and glimmer on every plane of existence. The magic of Bards is an attempt to harness those words — which transcend any language — and direct them to create new wonders.

Affinity of Echoes: All bards have a connection to the echoes of creation but access to those echoes can manifest differently so bard magic can vary as much as the creators themselves. At 1st level, a bard selects from the Arcane, Divine, or Primal spell lists and prepares spells from that list. Bards have access to Divination and Enchantment schools, and select two other schools other than Evocation from which they can prepare spells.

Click to expand...

Ashrym said:

Try this change I made for playing in the playtest:

Affinity of Echoes: All bards have a connection to the echoes of creation but access to those echoes can manifest differently so bard magic can vary as much as the creators themselves. At 1st level, a bard selects from the Arcane, Divine, or Primal spell lists and prepares spells from that list. Bards have access to Divination and Enchantment schools, and select two other schools other than Evocation from which they can prepare spells.

I find this limits the spell selection as it appears to be intended and still allows a variety of bard builds similar to what we have now. It feels better, although I just started with the change so might be missing exploitive combos.

Click to expand...

OB1 said:

I really like this, leans into the jack of all trades motif of the Bard. I'd maybe consider giving 1 more 'set' school based on subclass, and then allow the choice of 1 more (other than evocation) that can be swapped out on a long rest.

Click to expand...

Laurefindel said:

The class is a good enchanter, but it’s not what I envision as a bard. It’s overreliance on spells is off-putting, but that is my main complain about 5e in general…

Click to expand...

Ashrym said:

D&D has had that reliance on magic in general for pretty much every edition. I push for high magic bards because bards in mythology do more impressive things with magic than most wizards in mythology to the point where there's a contention whether druids taught magic to bards or bards taught magic to druids.. Bard, druid, and wizard were interchangeable terms at one point.

Bards and their counterparts in other cultures would be highly magical and in a highly magical setting within the game. The issue is the name was appropriated into use outside of that mythology (and historical roles) so people have other bard concepts. My idea of a bard includes epic spell battles like Amergin facing the druids in the Milesian invasion, Taliesin controlling the weather and shaking castles with his power while he curses the enemy bards so they cannot oppose him when he was rescuing Elphin, or Manawydden's magical duel in Song of Rhiannon.

It's easier to have a non-magical ranger that adds some magic than it is to add a powerful spellcaster trope to a class with limited spell casting abilities. It's easier to take less bard levels for a less magical bard and take rogue or fighter levels to match a less magical bard trope.

Pushing music is a 3e thing that people cling to. Bards used songs and stories to learn the customs and history of the people and teach with those stories and legends.

Click to expand...

Laurefindel said:

Indeed I have a very 2e « deformed » perception of bard and tend to cling to it. I have a strong dislike for the 3e spells-as-music cast in the middle of combat. I like to think there is strong magic in songs and stories, but a deeper and more subtle one than D&D battle magic.

I still prefer the rogue-like 2e bard; someone that has managed to figure spellcasting out and goes from inn to inn like (what I think) Chris Pine’s bard will do in the upcoming movie. The present bard make a really good Talisen/Merlin-the-enchanter class however, and that’s why I said I was of two minds about it. Part of me thinks that should be what a druid or sorcerer does, but the current bard does it perfectly.

Then again, the bard has changed significantly with every single edition.

Click to expand...

Ashrym said:

An arcane trickster with the entertainer background and inspiring leader feat portrays that style of bard well even if it's heavy on the rogue part. I'd also add the healer feat because bards are healers traditionally and that was one of the drawbacks of the 2e version.

I had a lot of fun with it regardless.

Bards in 1e required rogue levels to simulate skills and scouting, not because of an affiliation with thievery, but there are tropes of the roguish musician that filtered into the bard concept and those were more prominent in the 2e version. They are fun to play but look at this picture:

View attachment 279684
The Bard (c. 1817), by John Martin

Bards didn't look or act like rogues or minstrels. They were prophets and seers, magicians, healers, and historians. They wrote praise poetry, advised on customary law, taught through parable, and inspired with stories and music. They were often depicted as elderly men with long flowing beards.

The roguish minstrel is a different trope from the mythological and historical bards. The class needs to fit in the lorekeepers, roguish minstrels, warrior poets, music is magic bards, etc. There are a lot of bard tropes to fit in.

Click to expand...