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Shardstone said:

The Lady of Pain is probably, to me — a younger D&D fan — one of the best things to come out of TSR-era D&D. She embodies a certain punk-divinity where you can't label here and her influence is definitely felt. By making the Lady of Pain have no stat block and basically never interact with anyone, she becomes more of a weather phenomenon then a character. This is fitting if you want to portray her godly mystery, a thing that cannot be defined or understood no matter how hard you try, and even the DM cannot figure out what this Anomaly is.

However, I see a lot of value in building the Lady of Pain's character. I see her as a contemporary to the 5E Raven Queen, both women being outside the typical definition of godhood, both women being mute, both women being inscrutable, and both women dealing with a certain esoteric or occult mystery that brings a unique tone out of the game that I very much enjoy.

The Raven Queen has an implied goal, and the Lady of Pain almost does. It'd be more interesting to me if the Lady of Pain did have something she wanted or was seeking out or wanted to protect. And if that's Sigil, ok, but why? The idea of the metanarrative only existing as long as she exists can go a long way for me. But why is she the Lady of Pain? Is it because pain is necessary for life/order/society to flourish? Is it another reason?

So maybe not building the character so much as exploring the symbol the Lady of Pain represents could be a great way to innovate the character while sticking true to the original idea.

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dave2008 said:

I don't think we will see 9-10 of the hierarch modrons. 5e typically streamlines things. I think 4+/- is likely.

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Henadic Theologian said:

"Plethora of Player Options" sure sounds like player facing product to me, if it's not meant to be they should stop selling its as one.

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Demetrios1453 said:

Why would they stop mid-sequence? Decaton, nonaton, octon, septon... it's very likely to be 9 or 10, depending on whether they want to stat Primus' near godlike status...

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Henadic Theologian said:

Reading this makes me wish they'd done a Patron of Pain subclass for the Warlock, a deal with her or her Dabuses.

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BB Shockwave said:

If Orcus once killed Primus - and Orcus has an 5E stat block - then logic dictates Primus will too have a stat block. Probably CR22 or over, but it is kind of a point of the Modron race that Primus can never truly be killed, one of the Secundi will be promoted instantly... unless you meddle around and delay it a bit like Orcus' shade did, but even then he comes back somehow. He is not as much a god as an embodiment of pure order.

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BB Shockwave said:

Here is hoping we see some Archons (the celestials, not the terrible looking armored Elementals, those are called Myrmidons anyway), Guardinals, Lillends, maybe even classic celestial Elf style Eladrin. It's crazy that 5E has been around for 10 years now and they never gave us more than 3 types of Angels.
I dunno where someone got Gehreleths from? Though all 3 types were in Minsc and Boo's Journal of Villainy, but I dunno if that book is considered official or third party like Kobold Press stuff...


Except we got all 5 base Modrons in the Monster Manual.

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MonsterEnvy said:

I don’t want the Lady to have any implied desires or goals stated by the game. I have no interest in her being like the Raven Queen.

She should be an enigma like the Mourning from Eberron, any answers are purely for a DM to decide.

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Henadic Theologian said:

Reading this makes me wish they'd done a Patron of Pain subclass for the Warlock, a deal with her or her Dabuses.

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Maxperson said:

Because WotC got lazy and declared nothing canon. Elminster is now not canon. The next FR product can literally say, "Elminster never existed. A group of adventurers went into the Underdark and wiped out a colony of myconids and ground them up into dust which they put into the food of every living thing on Toril, causing the largest mass hallucination in history(at least until the next product changes that!)."

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Henadic Theologian said:

Celestials haven't gotten much attention yet and until they figure out how to make Slaads Chaotic Neutral, instead of Chaotic Evil, they will just annoy me.

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