D&D (2024) Did you make up your mind about 5.24?

Paul Farquhar said:

Don't forget about how the gods all care so much about their followers' morality!

I tend to think of typical D&D religion as christian polythesim. Or maybe polychristianity.

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That's definitely been an issue with D&D's portrayal of the gods. Hell, the Wall of the Faithless in the FR got made up basically because one of the writers (not Ed Greenwood, he was already no longer in control by then) couldn't figure out why anyone would worship the gods if there wasn't some sort of nasty coercive punishment mechanism to eternally damn you if you didn't, which er indicates a rather... limited... understanding of both religion and people.

As @dave2008 says, I don't think there's anything inherent about D&D that makes it bad at modelling polytheism, it's just a lot of bad lore concepts from people who didn't really think about it in a very open-minded or worldly-wise or even knowledgeable way. The specialization of Clerics based on gods isn't great, but I think is a reflection of the sheer popularity of the 2E FR "Speciality Priest" concept, which 3E, and 5E (and to a lesser extent 4E) really embraced.

mamba said:

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so they fail at modeling polytheism because they use larger temples? Not where I thought this was headed

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More that it treats temples like church for mosques rather than, say what we might consider a temple to Zeus.

QuentinGeorge said:

More that it treats temples like church for mosques rather than, say what we might consider a temple to Zeus.

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that varies drastically by time / culture, check with the Athenians on that



To me it is more that they treat believers as if they choose one god out of the pantheon rather than bringing sacrifices to different ones depending on what they are asking for, but you can easily fix that in your game…

mamba said:

that varies drastically by time / culture, check with the Athenians on that

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To me it is more that they treat believers as if they choose one god out of the pantheon rather than bringing sacrifices to different ones depending on what they are asking for, but you can easily fix that in your game…

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It’s functionally the same as a small temple though. It houses a statue of the god, and that’s it. Worshipers have to stay outside, whist only the priests enter and attend the god. There is no preaching, and people only go to the temple when they want something of the god. It’s very common for D&D temples to be depicted with rows of pews inside!

Yes, and I like it. Perfect set of rules for us jumping back into D&D.

I'm going to adopt 5.24e, as I think it is a net improvement. But there are things I think they could have done better and some changes I don't like.

dave2008 said:

Do you mean the D&D lore? I've played D&D since about 1983+/- and have had no issue modeling polytheism in my games through 3+ editions of the game.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that 4e really did model a polytheistic approach in the default Dawn War pantheon IIRC. It even mentioned people might pray or pay homage to multiple gods to gain their favor (like Bane before battle, Tiamat for wealth, or Melora for safe sea travel).

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Yeah I was more speaking lore, the mechanics are basically written as to not require gods at all, but all D&D pantheons are set up as if they are modern religions wearing a few trappings of polytheisms (in effect, modern pagan revivals)

mamba said:

that varies drastically by time / culture, check with the Athenians on that

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To me it is more that they treat believers as if they choose one god out of the pantheon rather than bringing sacrifices to different ones depending on what they are asking for, but you can easily fix that in your game…

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The Temple of the Olympian Zeus was big because it had to house... a big statue of Zeus. Not because it expected to have worshippers lined up on pews.

There's a reason most early Christian churches were converted public buildings (ie basilicas) rather than pagan temples, because they were used in entirely different ways!

This is contrasted, however, to how many early mosques were repurposed churches - the purpose was much the same, so the interiors could be used for either religion.

This thread has taken a weird turn.

IMNSHO, I don't expect D&D to be an accurate depiction of polytheism any more than I expect Disney princesses to accurately represent European monarchies. It's make believe fantasy, not historical fiction. YMMV.

In many (most?) of the reallife polytheistic temples, nobody was allowed in the building except the priests.

Deset Gled said:

This thread has taken a weird turn.

IMNSHO, I don't expect D&D to be an accurate depiction of polytheism any more than I expect Disney princesses to accurately represent European monarchies. It's make believe fantasy, not historical fiction. YMMV.

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It depends on the choice of setting. Some aim for accuracy and verisimilitude. Others aim for whimsy and anachronisms.