The Greatest Literary Villains of All Time

Ruin Explorer said:

And why is Caliban even in there? He's not even a villain and there are like fourteen actual villains from Shakespeare that could have had the slot!

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An all-Shakespearean villains bracket would be more interesting. Yeah, Iago is favored to win, but there's a lot of great contenders, especially once you venture into the lesser-seen works, like Titus Andronicus.

Bedrockgames said:

But this seems more like a western lit list

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I feel like the biggest issue with this list is that there's no consistency as to the selection criteria. Basically it seems to break down to like:

1) General Western Literature canon that you might read in school/uni.

2) Steven King specifically for no apparent reason.

3) Shakespeare specifically (for more obvious reasons).

4) A couple of random airlifted genre novels. Like, I love The Hunger Games, but what is it doing here? It is not yet part of the Western Canon, it's not usually regarded as "literature". Is Snow a better villain than many of these? Sure but why is he here and not say Dudley Smith from James Ellroy's LA books? If anything they're more part of "literature" and Smith both a more menacing/oppressive and complete character.

5) Two joke entries which essentially just acted as gimmies for the other character in the bracket.

I think if we take a very honest appraisal of this list, it's like, informed by literature, but really heavily influenced by Hollywood - a lot of these characters wouldn't even be in consideration if it wasn't for Hollywood portrayals of them - and that's really why Snow is there too (doesn't really explain why Dudley Smith isn't, but...).

Surprised Keyser Söze isn't on that list.

Ruin Explorer said:

I feel like the biggest issue with this list is that there's no consistency as to the selection criteria. Basically it seems to break down to like:

1) General Western Literature canon that you might read in school/uni.

2) Steven King specifically for no apparent reason.

3) Shakespeare specifically (for more obvious reasons).

4) A couple of random airlifted genre novels. Like, I love The Hunger Games, but what is it doing here? It is not yet part of the Western Canon, it's not usually regarded as "literature". Is Snow a better villain than many of these? Sure but why is he here and not say Dudley Smith from James Ellroy's LA books? If anything they're more part of "literature" and Smith both a more menacing/oppressive and complete character.

5) Two joke entries which essentially just acted as gimmies for the other character in the bracket.

I think if we take a very honest appraisal of this list, it's like, informed by literature, but really heavily influenced by Hollywood - a lot of these characters wouldn't even be in consideration if it wasn't for Hollywood portrayals of them - and that's really why Snow is there too (doesn't really explain why Dudley Smith isn't, but...).

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I think that is okay though. It makes sense to go with villains the writers like or that they think an audience will know from movies. I would have made a different list myself, but I don't think mine would have been any better (just reflected my own idiosyncrasies as a reader). And I am no Stephen King fan, so it isn't like those would be my first choices. I just get, he is a popular horror writer.

Sacrosanct said:

Surprised Keyser Söze isn't on that list.

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Anyone on that list could be Keyser Soze!

Sacrosanct said:

Surprised Keyser Söze isn't on that list.

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How surprised? On a scale from raised eyebrow to shocked and aghast? He’s not a literary character.

Morrus said:

How surprised? On a scale from raised eyebrow to shocked and aghast? He’s not a literary character.

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For some reason I thought that was based on a book. I guess mild surprise just turned to disappointment.

Deset Gled said:

If a non-anthropomorphised planet is allowed to be a villian from one series, I don't understand why weather (maybe from "The Perfect Storm?) or even concepts like institutional racism or fate aren't represented. Set some guidelines already.

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Definitely. When you do something like this, guidelines and well-defined premise are essential. Otherwise you have some people voting for villain who does the most evil thing and others voting for truest depiction, etc. (or, as you point out, different definitions of what qualifies as villain).

Deset Gled said:

Ah well. Screw it. I vote for Napoleon the pig. In the context of evil, genocide, subjugation, and horror, does it even make sense for a talking pig to be on the bracket? Probably not. But in the end (spoilers!), Napoleon becomes a man; an allegory for humanity. And we all know that people are the worst. Literally.

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I should re-read that one. For all I remember, outside of scale (and yes being an fanciful talking animal since it's an allegory), he does commit all of those acts. Certainly subjugation. Does anyone end up sent to the butcher/glue factory?

Dioltach said:

With these things, I always get the impression that they're based mostly on "Look how many literary books I've read!"

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Ruin Explorer said:

This is 100% the vibe, yeah. Like it's the sort of thing I might have done when I was like 22 and extremely pleased with myself for having read a lot of the Western Canon.
...
As for the current bracket, Napoleon should win it, but someone trite like Sauron probably will. Despite 90% of the people voting don't even understand the nature of Sauron's villainy.

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I'm not passing judgment, but I just want to point something out. I think it's great when we recognize our own nerd pretentiousness, past or present. It keys into my great unwritten thread about nerds being awful to each other and I think self-reflection is healthy and laudable. I don't think it marries well, however, with assuming that most everyone else who's familiar with Sauron doesn't really understand the character.

Bedrockgames said:

Calling the monster is fair though

He was pretty evil in the book. Very sympathetic and persuasive, but evil. And he has reasons for why he is the way he is which have to do with frankenstein’s rejection of his responsibility towards the creature, but he still murders a child, frames an innocent woman and let’s her get executed and kills people around Frankenstein who have no fault for his situation. So by any measure the creature is a villain. In fact I think his sympathetic portrayal is what makes him such a great villain. He probably gives one of the best bad guy speeches ever

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Agreed. The book is a great example of one of those stories where everyone with agency is just plain awful and everyone neutral or sympathetic (minus I guess Captain Walton) are destroyed by the two willful jerks.

TheSword said:

Presumably a discussion was had in a bar somewhere. It doesn’t feel there are two many esoteric figures on there though?

For me Dracula tops the list. He is the most villainous villain of all time not just all literature. and D&Ds greatest villain is an homage to him.

I’m surprised Cersai Lannister wasn’t on the list.

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Yeah, it's got to be Dracula, with all apologies to Sauron. Dracula's impact is just massive, and as a villain he is loaded down with symbolism that continues to resonate through the ages.

Willie the Duck said:

I don't think it marries well, however, with assuming that most everyone else who's familiar with Sauron doesn't really understand the character.

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I think it's straightforwardly true, though, because Sauron's character literally isn't fully explained in LotR (the books, let alone the movies, which is where most people will be coming from). That's on Tolkien for giving him an overcomplicated backstory! And one that shines a very different (albeit not necessarily better) light on his actions/goals.