D&D (2024) Chance for a warlord?

TorgoTheWhite said:

Fair. The limiting prerequisite differentiation would probably be: veteran + higher charisma = follow me and we win or at least live (the true narrowing narrative). Not all fighters would be cut out to lead fighting men, hence charisma would not be a dump stat for these guys.

Click to expand...

TorgoTheWhite said:

To me this is a secular Oath of Glory paladin in some regards, without charisma leaning into magic abilities or radiant dmg boosts. I also think if the support abilities are charisma reliant enough then, there is no need to nerf the fighter base chassis because the "rubber meets the road" on how MAD you are able to make this support fighter similar to the good ole' aforementioned Paladin

Click to expand...

TorgoTheWhite said:

Agree to disagree. A good drill sergeant can accomplish some amazing things. Make those -armed weenies do amazing things they never knew they could do

Click to expand...

Paul Farquhar said:

The drill sergeant approach only works on wannabe soldiers. It’s sports coaches who try that approach who drive so many kids away from playing sport. But in fantasy land, call the wizard a weenie and you are likely to find yourself crispy fried.

Click to expand...

FrogReaver said:

So taking these ideas let's write up the typical Warlord. The Warlord demonstrates martial prowess while having innate tactical and leadership prowess. That's the most common view of the Warlord that I've came across. The problem there is, Fighters can have innate tactical and leadership abilities as well and so it doesn't make narrative sense for why they cannot do the things the Warlord is doing. Alternatively, if we restrict fighters to not having innate tactical and leadership abilities to explain the difference in Warlord abilities and theirs, then you've eliminated a huge number of fighter narratives.

Click to expand...

FrogReaver said:

I don't see a problem with either narrative.

Click to expand...

fuindordm said:

In theory a player can certainly role-play a pure fighter as a leader and strategist, sure.
In practice, in my 40+ years of gaming, I think I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen a player lean into that archetype. Why?

1. Survivability trumps role-play -- players would rather boost Dex or Con than Int, Wis or Cha for a fighter. In 3e I saw a smattering of Int 12 or Int 14 fighters who wanted skill points but that didn't really change their narrative.
2. Players usually choose fighters to experience the joy of running a PC that is personally effective at combat. If they want to play a support role they turn elsewhere.

The narrative choice of 'how do I want to play my fighter' usually comes well after the character is built, and is both informed by and constrained by the above.

I have played battlemaster fighters -- one of my favorite classes -- but they are still fighters and not intrinsicially leaders because the class abilities don't support that narrative well. The only martial PC in recent memory that I chose to play as a leader / strategist was a 3e Knight.

So my own feeling, based on personal experience summarized above, is that carving out the leader/strategist narrative from the figher and giving it to a new class, is not taking anything at all away from the fighter in practice.

It's like giving away that drum set in the garage that you never play, but hold onto because you might want to join a band, someday, after you learn to play the drums.

Click to expand...

Paul Farquhar said:

In my case, it instilled a hated of sport. In the case of the coach, it lead to his small child being bullied.

In the military, it has lead to an awful lot of sergeants being accidentally shot in the back.

In D&D, if a player tries to tell the others what to do in a fight, it will likely require the offending player to be removed from the game.

Click to expand...

FrogReaver said:

Okay. And why does any of that mean we can't have the narrative of a Drill Sergeant benefiting the party?

Click to expand...

Paul Farquhar said:

The other party members say you can't have that narrative.

Click to expand...

FrogReaver said:

Do you mean PC's or players?

Click to expand...