D&D 4E 1/2 Orcs in 4E (Rich Baker scoop)

[mhacdebhandia]

Edit: The Tiefling race nowadays is NOT from demon sex (which I hate conceptually... c'mon, sex with a demon? How'd THAT happen? That just makes demons too "human" for my liking)

Incubi and succubi, for one. You know Merlin, in the traditional stories, had magical abilities because his father was an incubus who impregnated his human mother? More classic than Tolkien!

 

[Pale Jackal]

Second the half-orc is an outsider and allows for a fairly popular archetype of the outsider that stradles two worlds (like Worf from STNG, Manni from Brotherhood of the Wolves, even Wolverine from X-Men) between "civilization" and "savagery". The difference is a full orc wouldn't feel any need to fit in with humans? He's an orc and knows he's an orc. He doesn't supply that conflicted nature archetype that the half-orc does.

I suppose this is a legitimate point. Some races lend themselves to a certain archetype better than others. If you want half-elves and half-orcs to exist for the "conflicted outsider" archetype, I suppose that's fair, since if we really wanted to we could make every racial archetype fit into a humans-only scenario, but clearly most people don't want that.

Incubi and succubi, for one. You know Merlin, in the traditional stories, had magical abilities because his father was an incubus who impregnated his human mother? More classic than Tolkien!

You're right, that does work. I, personally, think of tieflings as more than just the result of hot succubi getting down with human males (or vice versa.) That may be the result of my dislike of "mixed" races, or the fact that when you say "demon" I think of DEMONS! (which is consists of most D&D demons) Not succubi or incubi... though that might be the most 'logical' conclusion. But if the tiefling entry doesn't specify those two demons (and it could, for all I know) then, that my "WTF" question does remain somewhat valid.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

One possible idea, now this may sound too sci-fi for fantasy but have Half-Orcs come about from simply genetic-chance. Perhaps Orc-genes are more dominant then Humans, so your parents could be Human but in the distant past they had a Orc-ancestor. The combination of those two bloodlines would make the Orcish-blood more dominant thus Half-Orc.

This could also work into other Half-species as well, hell they could even do a generation-system for the mechanical points you get for having that much of that non-human bloodline in you.

 

[Voss]

So, the other issue... the one that bothers me: part of the rules are going to be hidden from book-only customers on DDI.

Thoughts?

 

[JohnSnow]

No-one? Isn't that the original origin story of good old Tanis from Dragonlance, who is probably the iconic half-elf of D&D (never mind Elros and Elrond)?

Aha! But that's the point. You can't just say "nevermind Elros and Elrond" especially because there's many Human/Elven pairings in Middle Earth. Aragorn & Arwen leap to mind, and while Aragorn is the offspring of Elros, and Arwen the daughter of Elrond, both of Elros and Elrond's parents had human-elf pairings in their ancestry. Elwing was descended from Beren & Luthien, and Earendil's parents were the human Tuor and the elf Idril. All were love matches.

You could also count the half-elven son of Tomas and Aglaranna from Raymond Feist's Riftwar - Calis, IIRC. He's the result of a love-match. There's also Shea Ohmsford from Terry Brooks' Sword of Shannara.

Going back even further, there's half-elves in the various nordic sagas, some of the them the products of rape, and some not. Heck, before Tolkien made it mean something else, the term "halfling" usually referred to a half-elf.

By contrast, the famous half-orcs that are the results of love matches are...??

Sorry, can't think of any...

IMO, they'd be better off to introduce a race inspired by the Norse "trollborn."

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I imagine with that it may first be yes only on DDi but sooner or later either the Forgotten Realms book or another book will have them in it.

Also, honestly how long do you think it will take those on DDi to post everything ever put on DDi on the official forum or this forum, I bet a minute at the most.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I'm not too concerned about half-orcs showing up first in D&D Insider, as long as they're properly provided for when Eberron rolls around.

 

[Imaro]

Indeed, to the contrary, the 'otherworldly romance' factor of elf/human relationships is playing on a very common fantasy/folklore trope.

From what I've read, most changelings aren't conceived with humans. Their just left with them. In fact what traditional source actually has a fae and a human experiencing an actual romance? If I'm wrong I'm willing to accept that, but none come to mind offhand.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Aha! But that's the point. You can't just say "nevermind Elros and Elrond" especially because there's many Human/Elven pairings in Middle Earth. Aragorn & Arwen leap to mind, and while Aragorn is the offspring of Elros, and Arwen the daughter of Elrond, both of Elros and Elrond's parents had human-elf pairings in their ancestry. Elwing was descended from Beren & Luthien, and Earendil's parents were the human Tuor and the elf Idril. All were love matches.

You could also count the half-elven son of Tomas and Aglaranna from Raymond Feist's Riftwar - Calis, IIRC. He's the result of a love-match. There's also Shea Ohmsford from Terry Brooks' Sword of Shannara.

Going back even further, there's half-elves in the various nordic sagas, some of the them the products of rape, and some not. Heck, before Tolkien made it mean something else, the term "halfling" usually referred to a half-elf.

By contrast, the famous half-orcs that are the results of love matches are...??

Sorry, can't think of any...

IMO, they'd be better off to introduce a race inspired by the Norse "trollborn."

This is more nit-picking then anything, but... True Half-Elves in Tolkiens world, had a choice where in they ever let themselves become Human or stay a immortal Elf... So there isn't really any Half-Elves as we now portray them in Tolkien.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

So, the other issue... the one that bothers me: part of the rules are going to be hidden from book-only customers on DDI.

Thoughts?

We know they're going to publish compilations of D&D Insider material in book form from time to time, so this is absolutely no more problematic than the fact that the ninja class in Complete Adventurer first showed up in Dragon.