D&D 5E 1 Year later: D&D still strong on amazon

[BryonD]

I can tell you that in my neck of the woods ....

Cool. I'm convinced that the past 12 months has been a solid boom period.

 

[Queer Venger]

Agree completely.

That doesn't mean that the % of the population playing D&D (or TTRPGs) grows, just that there are new players every day, just as there are players who move on every day.

Staying on the front end of younger, newer players (aka 'not Bryon') is critical to long term success.

Byron, may I ask something? Does it matter to you that much that X% of people are playing 5e? Are you playing 5e?

 

[Cybit]

FWIW; in Seattle we're seeing crazy growth of 5E in terms of organized play. Went from years of one or two tables to 5-6; and frankly we just don't have enough DMs. I can echo Mike's comments that the sales of the core books so far have been extremely robust - passing that of 4E and 3E in the same time period.

 

[Mistwell]

At our Adventurer's League night, we're hurting for DMs now too. My longtime DM is doing it, I am doing it, and now we're facing getting someone new up to speed to do it for a third table (for a store that never had any form of RPG organized play prior to 5e). Only...nobody is really ready for it (or at least they don't think they are ready for it). It's all either new players to RPGs in general, or guys who have not really played much D&D since the TSR days. We're facing the possibility of getting a kid to DM that third table...because at least he seems maybe willing.

We even "invented" a new way of doing it, where a DM will handle a large group of 8-10 people for non-combat stuff, and then split into two tables with two DMs for the combats, where each combat is against the same foes, but the groups resolve them separately and then come back together after the combat. It's a bit wonky but working "ok" so far. Wonky in that you were role playing with one guy a moment before to enter that room, but now he's not around for the combat in that same room.

 

[BryonD]

Byron, may I ask something?

Don't know who Byron is, but I'll answer: sure, go ahead.

Does it matter to you that much that X% of people are playing 5e?

Nothing on ENWorld "matters" to me. But I am interested and I enjoy certain conversations.

As to the context of my prior comment, I consider it quite important to the common conversations about the overall health of the industry and strategies for optimizing success within that marketplace.
There have been numerous times when the idea of exploding the size of the fan base would revolutionize gaming has been proposed. It doesn't work.
If anything, the overall marketplace shrinks. For example, D&D (as a TTRPG) will never ever sustain a period of popularity like the 1980s. If you take 10 D&D gamers from 1982 and time travel them to today, in a few months 4 of them will be playing MMOs or somesuch and will never play a TTRPG again, at least not with any regularity. They won't be opposed, but they have new, and for them better, options that did not exist in 1982.

So when I see claims that the fanbase is booming (not meaning to put words in anyone's mouth there, feel free to just point and me and proclaim overreaction), I get skeptical.
That said, I'm still backtracking because existing players coming back to D&D several months in would support the data we are seeing. Also, my reaction was a bit knee-jerk because a standard long term fanbase doesn't mean you can't have a nice boom period, such as immediately following a great new edition being released.

("Important" in the above means, "leading to well founded conclusions. It does not mean that us reaching well founded conclusions is important. This is recreation)

Are you playing 5e?

Yes. Fairly heavily modded to a more 3E/PF feel, but I'd certainly call it a 5E with PF feel and not PF with 5E feel.

 

[BryonD]

We're facing the possibility of getting a kid to DM that third table...because at least he seems maybe willing.

Do it Do it Do it

Great DMs are not born they are made.
Encourage this kid to dive in, make mistakes and KEEP HAVING FUN.

 

[Queer Venger]

All very good points Bryon
I'm curious to know how you mesh PF with 5e, I happen to enjoy both but I feel they are very different games, e.g, I find DMing with 5e so much more enjoyable

 

[BryonD]

I'm curious to know how you mesh PF with 5e, I happen to enjoy both but I feel they are very different games,

What I like particularly about 5E is the impact of the bound accuracy. What I miss from PF when playing 5E is range of distinctions and fine differences. (I like things like +1 AC and to hit for being small).
Obviously these things are a bit at odds. So I look for my own personal perfect balance and then make it a work in progress towards what works as a perfect balance for everyone in my group.

I retooled the Prof bonus table to scale from +2 to +8 and increased max ability scores to 22.
I added weapon focus back in, but as a class feature that most classes receive at least a little. (fighter get a lot and up to +3, monks get with monk weapons, wizards get onyl with spell attacks, etc.)
I retooled armor ACs to scale along the same lines.

Basically the bounding lives, but attacks and defenses get "equal measure" bumps to provide more room for distinctions. Too much bumps quickly destroys the benefits of bounding, but I'm keeping it to roughly an extra +5 for very high level characters, and less for most typical characters.

This Prof bonus replaces BAB if you play a PF class.
5E spellcasting system also replaces PF.
This makes some PF classes somewhat moot, but the class features are there (instant massive increase in Sorcerer options, 2 domain clerics can work, etc..)

Prof bonus is ditched from Skills. I use PF skills except ditched the +3 class bonus and capped ranks at 1+ (1/2 level) for class skills and 1/4 level for non-class skills. The I fiddled with # of SPs to "fit" this system.

I used 5E feats because it is simply easier to do. If a PF class has bonus feats then you still get PF feats, but they are "class features" so no big deal. Some case by case adapting is needed, but no problem. Things like "Dodge" don't really work, for example with the bounded approach.

Healing uses short/long rests and HD per 5E, but I trimmed the allocation to approximate the "natural" healing rate of PF. Full healing with a long rest does not exist.

Monsters are retooled a bit, but not much. Basically just keep in mind that attacks, saves, and DCs should scale from no change at L1 to +2 or +3 by L10 to +5 or +6 at L20.

A lot of little things on top of that. Some of them are just funky things I've used for years (my own language rule; Languages have 4 ranks, Rank 1 requires the player to not use any word with an E when there character is speaking in that language. Rank 2 is same, but no "M". Rank 3 is unlimited, but you are presumed to have a clear accent. Rank 4 is "as a native". Much fun and hilarity has come from this system)

But all in all very very much "work in progress". But working and fun.

 

[joshinminn]

Well, D&D is up at least one fan in me. I hadn't played since 2e. I bought some Essentials stuff a year and half ago, and hardly looked at it. I picked up 5e a few months ago and I feel like I'm 14 again. Loving every word (and new book) I can find.

 

[aramis erak]

If nothing else comes along to take the place of books that are sold well on Amazon then they will remain in their places until then. This by no means shows that D&D books are still going strong.

Amazon is not by any means a standard that people use to measure how well something is selling. It sells well on Amazon is about all the factual information you can get.

Amazon's data is based upon a (not publicly confirmed, but stated to be finite) sales period, not lifetime sales. If XYZZY sold 50M units last year and hit #1, but this year, sold 200, it will drop to #1000000 or so... The responsiveness implies weekly sales data crunched daily, but it may be last two weeks. D&D 5E shot up huge within 2 weeks of release.