D&D (2024) 2024 needs to end 2014's passive aggressive efforts to remove magic items & other elements from d&d

[Mistwell]

And given that 2-4 are not supposed to be required to play the game at all, this seems like there's a flaw in the game's design.

The game doesn't work great with ordinary tactics with the most extreme example you can think of is not evidence the game is flawed.

If you were playing a group with zero spellcasters and zero magic items, your tactics would be completely different by necessity. It's very likely involving a gloomstalker ranger and a thief rogue who prioritize attacking from hidden places, and using magic item alternatives than can be purchased that cause fire or acid damage, and all sorts of spying and strategy sessions to find a plan to deal with such a foe.

We've played that game. We had an all-ranger game once, and an all-monk game once. It can be really fun. But if you're just having a straight-up battle as if you had magic on your side when you don't, of course you're going to lose. The players change their plans in accordance with the resources they have.

 

[Mistwell]

So when the game tells you "magic items and feats are optional, play the characters you want", it never comes out and says "but there's a price to be paid there, and the DM has to be very careful to tailor challenges to the players". Experienced DM's know this and have their own approaches to the problems. New players and DM's will have to learn the hard way, when that could have been avoided by warning them up front.

There is no evidence this is a problem in practice. After a decade, there would be a ton of such evidence given that entire decade the game was hotly discussed on the internet.

You're presenting a hypothesis that was disproven almost from day one as if it's likely true, knowing full well none of what you guessed would happen ever actually seems to have happened. No new players and DMs are having this issue as far as we can tell.

 

[Minigiant]

There is no evidence this is a problem in practice. After a decade, there would be a ton of such evidence given that entire decade the game was hotly discussed on the internet.

You're presenting a hypothesis that was disproven almost from day one as if it's likely true, knowing full well none of what you guessed would happen ever actually seems to have happened. No new players and DMs are having this issue as far as we can tell.

There are YouTubers who make a living giving out this and other advice. Considering that such content creators don't make content for no one because views is money, this means there are at least some new players and DMs who do not know these things.

 

[Mistwell]

There are YouTubers who make a living giving out this and other advice. Considering that such content creators don't make content for no one because views is money, this means there are at least some new players and DMs who do not know these things.

Who is making videos about PCs being too weak if they don't choose a spellcaster and that magic items are not likely going to be found? Come on, given every published adventure has magic items, it's pretty rare that there are none to begin with unless a DM warns you that's what your game is going to be and what that means. And then who is making a party with no spellcasters at all such that there are youtube videos about that?

Show me.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.

So you're more in favor of the master/apprentice model, eh?? I can respect that.

I'm more of the "purge the weak" type myself. If they quit D&D, then they weren't meant to play it in the first place.

 

[Minigiant]

Who is making videos about PCs being too weak if they don't choose a spellcaster and that magic items are not likely going to be found? Come on, given every published adventure has magic items, it's pretty rare that there are none to begin with unless a DM warns you that's what your game is going to be and what that means. And then who is making a party with no spellcasters at all such that there are youtube videos about that?

Show me.

Again there is a conflation the Magic Items Treadmill with Magic Items Importance.

I never said there are people saying the martial PCs are too weak.
What I said is there are people making a living telling people to snag speed, saving throw, immunity, teleportation, social,and exploration magic items and spells on their martials or take races that have them.


All these build channels say the same thing: Take these combat feats then Resilient then take these movement, resistance, or social feats. And if your DM nice you might get these magic items. If not take these magicky feats.

 

[Mistwell]

Again there is a conflation the Magic Items Treadmill with Magic Items Importance.

I never said there are people saying the martial PCs are too weak.

When you jumped into a conversation I was having with someone else who said that, and I disagreed, and then you told me I was wrong...yeah, that's what you said.

If that's not your position, why were you "correcting" me? Your position is clearly not the same as James, so why did you say it was?

 

[Yaarel]

So you're more in favor of the master/apprentice model, eh?? I can respect that.

I'm more of the "purge the weak" type myself. If they quit D&D, then they weren't meant to play it in the first place.

Heh, guess which model makes more money.

 

[Minigiant]

When you jumped into a conversation I was having with someone else who said that, and I disagreed, and then you told me I was wrong...yeah, that's what you said.

If that's not your position, why were you "correcting" me?

You are stating that new DMs and new players are warned up front and there is no problem.

I'm saying people are making money giving warnings and advice about D&D's magic to people with problems because WOTC didn't

 

[Mistwell]

You are stating that new DMs and new players are warned up front and there is no problem.

No?

I am stating there is no problem with this particular issue. And we have a decade of experience seeing this particular thing isn't a problem. New players are not selecting all-non-spellcaster parties and then playing those in all-no-magic-item games and then finding they are trashed by some creature that makes that very vulnerable to trashing for lack of magic. This is not in fact a common problem in D&D.

And if you think there are a bunch of videos out there saying this particular thing is a big problem and then warning players about it, show me.