fearsomepirate
Hero
Taking psychic damage is a perceptible effect. The victim does not know who cast the spell, or where the caster is located. The victim does know it was the victim of a spell.
D&D 5E 20th level Sorcerer vs the world
- Thread starter Hohige
- Start date
Taking psychic damage is a perceptible effect. The victim does not know who cast the spell, or where the caster is located. The victim does know it was the victim of a spell.
Zio_the_dark
The dark one :)
OK I understand an ogre that search for 4 rounds then
Hohige
Explorer
You know tou take damage.but subtle mind Spike casting is imperceptible.
fearsomepirate
Hero
All the imperceptible casting means is the victim does not know your location. It does not mean any other rules of combat, such as rolling initiative, are abrogated.
Shadowedeyes
Adventurer
Hmm, Interesting. I wonder how well it applies in this instance though. Suggestion and Mind Spike are a bit different circumstances.We've already got a SA ruling on Suggestion: when it ends, or you succeed your save, you are a spell was cast on you. Presumably this is also true if you lose a battle of wills and have a few synapses fried.
If you cast Suggestion, are they aware that you specifically cast the spell on them after it ends?
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To be clear though, I do agree that a target would know they had to make Wisdom saving throw and that they took psychic damage as a result. Where I don't think it is clear is if the target knows if it was specifically the spell Mind Spike.
Hohige
Explorer
Imperceptible spells means imperceptible.
The target doesnt know nothing.
And I do not see how you can be taking damage from a spell and not be involved in combat.
It makes sense these weren't actual oni, though. Actual oni would have killed the party and eaten them before the corpses thawed.
AdmundfortGeographer
Getting lost in fantasy maps
This would be a perfect ENWorld poll of DMs, would a DM allow initiative in Hohige’s imagined rules.
Zio_the_dark
The dark one :)
I'm not a diviner but I predict it shouldn't be far from 100%
Again: Subtle Spell doesn't make the spell imperceptible. It makes casting the spell imperceptible. [EDIT: It at best makes casting the spell imperceptible. If there are material components involved, you still need to deal with them, which might enable someone to know you've been casting.]
If (in the absence of some mass telepathy effect) you use Subtle Spell to cast Mass Suggestion, everyone can hear the words you say--there's just not any abaracadabra ala kazam stuff before it. If some of them save, they might notice their companions behaving strangely, and be able to figure out what happened.
I'm pretty sure that example is entirely consistent with what's in Xanathar's and with the relevant SA stuff.
If you use Subtle Spell to cast Mind Spike, it doesn't give away your position, but the victim knows they've taken psychic damage, and can reasonably conclude they're under attack. A ruling otherwise is extremely friendly to the party and the sorcerer.
It's no wonder your opinions of your characters are so ... skewed, and why they flop so persistently when faced with the actual rules as the game is actually played (at tables other than your own, which seems to have gone pretty far astray--but if y'all are having fun, that's the primary goal, it's not badwrongfun or anything, there are just some presumptions baked into the game y'all are playing and D&D 5E that make them very different games in practice).
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